Cassie Kellner [00:00:01]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff. Honest combos, leadership lessons, and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:22]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. This is the, the very first time that I have had a guest on for the second time, Christine Brondyke. Christine, I have so many things to say. Welcome back. Thank you so much for joining me again.
Christine Brondyke [00:00:41]:
Thank you for asking me back. It's so much fun to hang out with you.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:45]:
Christine, I have to tell you, okay, first of all, if people did not listen to part one, it's episode one. Like, we came out. The Bloom Effect came out with a bang and you were it, Christine. And let me tell you something. Let me tell you, I have not told you this because I just, I want you to hear it here first and not behind the scenes. The level of correspondence that I got from that first podcast, Christine, colleagues, people in the industry, other consultants, my friends, my best friends from home. Okay.
Christine Brondyke [00:01:23]:
Oh, my God.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:24]:
My mother, my father in law. Oh, my God, my father. Oh, gosh, he's 79 years old, called me, okay. He's a retired veterinarian, so just know he owned a practice for a million years with a partner, called me. And he goes, and he's a tough critic. Like, he'll tell you. And he's like, it was great. This is Henry's voice. It was great. It was great. He's like, He's 79. He's like, I'm thinking of all the ways that I have been in this drama triangle my entire life. And Christine, I mean, some of people, obviously not in this industry, because this is not industry specific. Let's get real. This is people.
Christine Brondyke [00:02:05]:
It's people specific. It's, it's. I think the thing that, that makes me the most excited to share it is it really covers everything. It covers any aspect of our life as parents, as colleagues, as friends, as children, adult children of parents, grandparents. Uh, that's fabulous to hear.
Cassie Kellner [00:02:30]:
I am.
Christine Brondyke [00:02:32]:
And it's, it, it lets me know that's the success when somebody says, I'm now thinking, yes, because we're going to talk today about how to get out of the triangle. And so what he's literally letting you know and describing is, I heard that. And then I'm using it to self reflect. And that's the part I can't teach. That has to come from within the individual who's received it. Right. And so I have goosebumps. And to have your first. And my first. Having podcasts recording. I've shared it all over the place, but not on a podcast. It's so exciting to me to have that be the result.
Cassie Kellner [00:03:25]:
Oh, I can't even. My husband, you know, I've known, obviously have known about the drama triangle when you introduced it to me. We talked about on the first episode, like, my visceral reaction to this, and my sister listened to it. So, like I always told you, like, me, my mom, and my sister, it would be really funny if they were sitting with me. I mentioned this on the first podcast.
Christine Brondyke [00:03:46]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:03:47]:
And I. The response I got was so incredible that I'm so happy that people. People had the same response that I had the first time I listened to it because it's so simple. It's such a simple theory and concept, and we all fall into it all the time. I just had, had, had. Last month, Ryan McComb was on here, and he spoke about you and the work that you're doing with his practice and have continued to do over years and years. And it's just a really beautiful thing. So part two is because even my husband was like, wait, what do I do?
Christine Brondyke [00:04:34]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:34]:
Well, how do I get out of this? Like, what? You know, so maybe we should ask. Right? Oh, good. I'm glad that he's asking.
Christine Brondyke [00:04:43]:
Anybody who's smart enough to recognize I'm doing that, and my loved ones and the people that I care about, we're dancing. And I. And I love to think about it as a dance. It's like back in the 50s and 60s, if you learned dance steps, you put footprints on the floor, and you stepped on those, and that helped you learn. And I think of the triangle the same way we put the bases on the floor. And I'll literally, in person, have clients step around. Now I'm on victim, and now I'm standing on villain. And now I'm straddling. And now it's like Twister. And it is such. It is simple. But I think the thing that makes me the most excited about simple and something that really cuts across every aspect of human life is we can also make it fun. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So if you can make the triangle fun, you've already shifted it. Okay, so we're going to talk. Before I jump into that, we're going to just do a quick review of what the triangle is.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:52]:
Okay.
Christine Brondyke [00:05:53]:
The Triangle is a set of three distinct behaviors that we adopt, usually by age 5 as humans, to help us get through chaotic and conflicted times. Those behaviors, sort of, you can think about them as umbrella behaviors. There's the villain that pokes point fingers, criticizes, finds fault. The hero, that's more outreaching. How can I help you? Let me take care of you. I'll do it for you. And then the victim, which is, oh, my God, stick a fork in me. I'm done. Nobody loves me. I can't do this anymore. And. And because they're umbrella behaviors, you can have very subtle versions of each of those, and you can have very extreme versions of those. And it really matters not where you are on the triangle, which base, or even the level of extremity, if you can catch it, that is the place of true empowerment. So if we talk about the triangle as a tool, it's good. It's a good thing to be able to recognize, oh, my gosh. I got so frustrated with my kids the other day. I wasn't getting it through asking nicely that I started barking at them and screaming at them and said, you're going to do it right now because I want something. And what I wanted was for them to hear me and listen and do what I said. If we can recognize that, the upside is now I'm going to have choice. So when we're stuck on the triangle, the whole reason we're stuck is because we can really only see one or two options. And, you know, back when I was growing up, one option would be like, we're doing it my way and there's no other option. And as a parent, I certainly played that out. When there's only two options, it really feels like an either or. Either we do it this way or this bad thing's going to happen. Either you listen to me, or you're going to get a spanking. Right? That kind of either or, which really, ultimately still doesn't feel like a choice. Right. If you're, you know, is a. If you're talking about a business owner, you're going to do it this way or you're fired. Those kinds of either ors lets us know we're stuck. We're stuck in the triangle. If you can look and see, well, am I more stuck in hero, more stuck in victim, that's valuable. But if all you can get to is, I've got one or two options, that's all I can see. That's enough to let you know I'm stuck, because I can only See one or two options. And one or two options is not creativity. So the good news is once you can see a third option, you're already off the triangle. And I had a mentor who would say, if you can find a third option, you can find a fourth. And if you can find a fourth, you can find a fifth. And if you can find a fifth, you can find a sixth. And that's where we start to feel. Off the triangle feels radically different than being on the triangle. On the triangle, we feel rushed, cramped, constricted, provoked, attacked, victimized. You know, all these things of, like, it feels gross. And that's its value. The value of feeling disgusting is I don't like this feeling. Right. I feel trapped, I feel murderous. Whatever it is, it can be, again, very extreme or very subtle once you can catch it. That's our place of power. Okay, so one of the first shift moves, and we use what we call a drift and shift model. My unconscious mind and the way that I've always done things from age. You know, one time I'm talking on if it's triangle is gonna sound very predictable. If you've ever gone through life and you're like, oh, my God, I think I sound like my mother just now.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:10]:
Yeah, yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:10:11]:
It gets these. But you know, you're gonna do what I say, or else you're gonna, you know. And what was the, you know, you better be quiet. Stop crying. I'll give you something to cry about. These were the kinds of, you know, things that, like, you didn't like hearing, but then you might have repeated because we'll repeat these drama triangle patterns.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:29]:
To.
Christine Brondyke [00:10:30]:
What do I hear? Oh, some video started playing.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:37]:
Oh, I hear echo now.
Christine Brondyke [00:10:39]:
Yeah, Trump started playing the background. That's fascinating.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:44]:
I don't have a triangle. Wait, are your AirPods on, Christine? Because I can hear them off.
Christine Brondyke [00:10:52]:
They came off. So what do I do? Do I try and just reconnect back on? Yeah, but I don't want that to keep happening. I'm so sorry. They can edit this, right?
Cassie Kellner [00:11:04]:
Yeah, of course.
Christine Brondyke [00:11:08]:
Okay, you're back in my ears. Okay.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:10]:
Okay. Can you hear me? So hold on. Your glasses are on.
Christine Brondyke [00:11:14]:
Oh, thanks. Okay, so again, the triangle as a self awareness tool is designed to get us aware. Oh, I think I'm stuck. Most people will come to me and say, okay, I learned about the triangle. I don't like the triangle. It's creating all the conflict in my life. Now help me learn how to stay out of it. Yeah, and I'll say, I'm not interested in that. Because you're not going to stay out of it. I Learned this almost 30 years ago and I get on the triangle all the time. Who cares? It does not bother me that I get on the triangle. In fact, if I blame myself for getting on the triangle, I now have cemented myself further in to the triangle. If I can be. Yeah, so what? That's a piece of information. I'm feeling attacked right now. Boo hoo. He's so mean to me. I can't believe. Blah, blah, blah blah blah. That boss is the meanest boss I've ever had. Fine. So what? I got in the triangle for a minute. What matters is when you have that moment of that's triangle I'm not seeing a way out of. Feels like either I accept this bad behavior or I have to leave. Now I'm in an either or. I know now there's something else. What else could I do? So let's just take that as an example. Let's say somebody has a horrible boss and sometimes it is necessary. It's a healthy thing to leave. But let's say there's a lot of good things about this and it's like, man, if I could just change him from being a villain and me feeling like a victim, this would be the perfect job. If my first inclination is either I have to put up with that behavior or I have to leave, that's an either. Or when I have that awareness now, I could start as a shift move to shift out of the triangle. Well, what would be a third option? A third option might be, you know, I'm going to go in, I'm going to set an appointment time with that boss and I'm going to say I like this job. This really works for me. There's one thing that I am really struggling with and I want to talk to you about it. I want to see if there's a way that you would adjust or is there something I need to adjust and could we do that maybe? So if you're really off the triangle, we get playful. So let's say have you ever been around a little kid who's the mom is like. And another. And you know, and I also. And then the kids like. And they're like mimicking and you know, they're playful. Normally as a parent I would be very serious and be like, you need to stop that. But the thing that we can learn about kids is they're way, they're off the triangle way more than we are. So if I saw a kid now doing that, I'd probably be like, oh, yeah. And let me tell you something else. Now you're going to. You have to get that broom and you're going to do that, and then you're going to do this, and it becomes more playful. So another way to shift out of the triangle is to we know we're in the triangle when we only see one or two options. We also know we're in the triangle when we're serious. So if I get more and more serious, I'm more and more stuck in the triangle. And the more and more serious and the more and more stuck I am, the less and less options I see. So it's literally about exposure, expanding our ability to see and create and start to think about what are some other options.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:54]:
Yeah, it's a massive mindset. Shift. It sounds like it is.
Christine Brondyke [00:14:59]:
Yes, it is. Literally the drama triangle is a location tool for where we are in consciousness. And then the shift moves are tools to help us shift levels of consciousness. And when you shift into a level of consciousness, you actually change your experience. So let's talk about this as a shift move. I generally teach about five shift moves to beginners. There are probably infinite amount, but maybe 25 really sort of classical core shift moves that we'll go over over the span of a time period. When I'm working with people, the first shift move is to locate where you are that you're on the triangle. That's always the first move. Because you can't shift if you don't have an awareness. I'm doing it. You don't have to be very great about knowing specifically hero, villain, or victim. You don't have to know what the other person's doing. You just have to say, I'm pretty sure I'm stuck. And whether you're pretty sure you're stuck because you're recognizing those behaviors of, you know, leaning forward or like, help and help and help or point fingers at somebody or you catch. This is feeling very serious. This is feeling like I have no other options. Whatever helps gain awareness. Then we start to apply more shift skills. Playing is one that's often harder for people who get very stuck in the triangle. It was very hard for me. I used to call myself play challenged. I got very serious very young. Be a good student, Be helpful. Life is. This is not a joke. I'm sort of born out of some, you know, typical World War II. Like we. There's. There's not enough room for fantasy. There's not enough, you know, creativity is sort of an extra indulgence Life is about survival. And so we won't talk too much about play right now, but to know that if you can recognize where you are in the triangle and then create some shifts. So one of the first shifts I started using was the shift of appreciation. And the reason is because when you're stuck in the triangle, you are literally stuck at a level of consciousness where your eyes can see only the triangle. There's better than I'm doing better than. Or they're better than me. Or I'm less than. That's victim. Or they're less than me. They're not working as hard as me. They're not doing as much as me. That puts me better, puts them less or some other version of better than. Less than. We talked about that in the. In the first episode. To appreciate, I have to actually get into a different level of consciousness. And one of my favorite stories is when I went into an ortho practice and there was one staff member who was so righteously against another staff member, and there were aspects of what she was seeing was accurate. But I very lovingly said, I'd like to hear one thing that you appreciate about her. And she went, what? And I said, yeah, so you're really good at telling me all the things she's doing terribly. You're really vocal about where she's messing up. And there, you know, there's some truth to some of those things.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:38]:
Sure.
Christine Brondyke [00:18:39]:
But if you want to create a shift, I'd like to hear an appreciation. We sat in silence for almost 10 minutes. Oh, she could not think of one thing. And I said again, very lovingly, I'll wait. So if it had taken a full hour and the nervous system in our mind starts to get like, oh, my God. This is, like sitting in silence. It, like, feels like a police interrogation room. However, she got uncomfortable enough that it pushed her. So we push ourselves a little bit through these shift moves to go, oh, that one. I just. That person that I. I really can. I can find 200 things. I don't like to find. One thing that I do will shift me. It's not going to shift them. Yeah, but it'll shift me. The funny thing is, she came up with one thing, and she was, like, triumphant and thank gosh. And, you know, like, let's move forward. And then I said, that was great. That's a good one. I like that. And I agree with it. Find another.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:41]:
Oh, gosh.
Christine Brondyke [00:19:43]:
And she was like, what? Because it was so hard to find the first. But what she realized is it didn't take the full 10 minutes. The second one, there was less resistance to being kind to this person. It's like greasing the wheel. It gets a little easier. And then I think was maybe only three minutes. And then I pushed her. I said, find one more. And she's really, you know, this was a lot for her. But what was fascinating is when I came back to circle up about these issues, she was very proud to approach me and say, I can appreciate all kinds of things about this person now, and I don't feel that rigidity. It changes us. That employee still ended up being terminated for the real issues that were going on. But how it gets handled and how it gets handled in the interim. How I treat somebody, when I treat them with appreciation versus right, criticism, finding, fault, blaming and all of those things, it shifts. And so people can take termination if you have to terminate. It's a fabulous thing to be able to say. I see all these fabulous things about you. And there are some things that we're not going to be able to overlook and we need to take action on that. And it's a not fault finding. It's like, hey, there's good to me and I need some things to improve. John Gottman, who's a really fabulous relationship expert, found that healthy, thriving relationships of all kinds. He really studied romantic relationships. Certainly applies there. But this also applies in the professional realms, that healthy, thriving relationships have a 5 to 1 ratio of appreciation for every criticism, thought or verbalized. So in order to thrive in our relationships, we would need to appreciate our partner, our friends, our children, our boss, our employees, five times for every critical verbalization or thought. Now, when I learned this, I was like, no wonder that I'm struggling in every aspect of my relationship world. Because I not only was backwards, you could add some zeros, like highly critical. I didn't do Outward Villain so much. So one of the ways that I tricked myself into thinking that I wasn't a villain in the world is all of my criticisms happened silently in my head. It would be like somebody would do something. I'd be like, what an idiot. Silently.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:18]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:22:19]:
I didn't realize they can feel that, of course, right? And how I'll treat them If I've thought 10 times in a day, oh, there goes that dummy again. They can feel that. And so I started. And as for your listeners, what I would recommend, five to one is the goal. But I was so backwards that it was a success for me just to catch one criticism and balance it with one appreciation. And I want to Say to everybody who's listening. This includes our relationship with ourself. I was sometimes the most critical of me. God, Christine, what are you thinking? That was so stupid. I can't believe you. You know, that didn't get handled again today. Such a procrastinator, such a, you know, don't have any patience, blah, blah, blah. I would catch one. Ten more might happen, but I would do my best to catch one and then balance with what's something that I appreciate about me in this moment. And again, there might be some resistance because we're actually. It's kind of like the resistance. If you decide you want to go to a gym and you're all gung ho, you know, gung ho for the first week. But then the second week comes and you're like, I gotta work. I kind of, kind of get through the inertia. It's a little bit like that. It's like, okay, I am going to take the time and I'm going to think of one appreciation to balance that out.
Cassie Kellner [00:23:48]:
Do you feel, Christine, that that trickles down? If you're not giving yourself that level of appreciation, do you feel that that trickles down to. And. And let's just talk orthodontics because, like, as you're talking, let's get real. I'm talking. I'm thinking about all the relationships in my life, not just workplace environment. But if you are doing that to yourself, do you believe that it's harder to do, to give people the level of appreciation that they deserve because you are stuck in this mindset constantly, like you live here for yourself?
Christine Brondyke [00:24:23]:
I think, yes. I think when I'm working in the world, how I see somebody treats others will very much let me know how they treat themselves.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:34]:
Yeah, agree.
Christine Brondyke [00:24:36]:
And sometimes I'll hear when I'm. Especially when I'm working in the offices, somebody might say I'm a villain at home. So I have no problem barking, screaming, yelling, telling, you know, that's screwed up and that didn't get done, whether to my husband, to my kids, whatever. But I'm a hero at work. I definitely have seen that. So it's like I'll beat myself up, you know, before I go to bed. How I show up, one place is different than I. And a lot of that has to do with just cultural conditioning. But I absolutely have seen, you know, people who will say, because I speak harshly to myself and that motivates me to be better. I assume that if I speak harshly to others, that's going to motivate them. I'm like, people are different. If you've ever coached sports, you'll know. Telling a kid, I don't know if you could run that fast is a challenge for some. Watch me, I'm going to run as fast as I can. But saying that to somebody who's a different kind of level of receiver of information or sensitivity might go, oh, that coach doesn't believe in me. They don't think I can run that fast. I guess I can't.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:51]:
Yes.
Christine Brondyke [00:25:52]:
Yeah. So. And that's why we look at these things. And it is fun for me. It's an interesting thing to say that I actually have fun looking at these relationship dynamics because much like a sports coach, I get to learn about the truth of an individual. And those truths, those off the triangle. Triangle truths are what help me. Help them bring their full selves to an environment confidently, unapologetically, with power. And so then they get to have an experience of like, I'm seen differently.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:32]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:26:33]:
You know, respect is a big one. Like, anytime I ever hear in the world somebody say they're not respecting me, I'll think, oh, that's a triangle thing. And mostly in victim. And what's interesting is everywhere I go, I've never worried about if somebody respects me or not. And all of that came from. I spent a lot of time and energy just respecting myself. So when we have it, we don't need it from the outside world.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:04]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:27:05]:
In the same way that rich people get richer. Yeah, they already have it. So people give them free stuff. And then, you know, and people don't understand. But it. But we do have lived examples of this. Like, if you dated somebody and then boys come out of the woodwork and it's like, once I have a boyfriend, other boys want to date me, but when nobody. When I'm not dating anybody, there's no boys. It's the same thing. So here's the next shift move. When I give to myself the thing I want from another and I have it. One, I have it, but that's also when it comes from the other. So when I appreciate myself and I spent time building up that ratio of 5 to 1, I would hear appreciations all the time. Your lead in with the appreciation, Like, I had to practice being able to take in that much appreciation, but it just comes. It's like, oh, thank you so much. That feels so good. But you're not filling. I already filled the hole, so it's just gravy.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:12]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:28:13]:
And so. But a lot of times when we're on the triangle it's like, I need you to listen to me. And if you would listen to me, then I would feel valued.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:23]:
Yes. Yes.
Christine Brondyke [00:28:25]:
And so one of the shifts is to be able to have the awareness, use the triangle sort of verbiage to go, hey, I'm blaming him for not listening. And what I really want is for him to hear me. But rather than trying to get somebody I have no control over to hear me, how about I hear me? And then for me, the first time I did that, I was like, well, what is it I even want him to hear?
Cassie Kellner [00:28:51]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:28:51]:
It took me a minute to even. I was arguing with him for so long, I was like, I forgot what I even needed you to know. And then when I came home to my own self and was like, well, what? What do I need me to hear? And I remember this was many years ago. Here was the truth. I'm so tired. Yeah, that's what I wanted him to hear. And then once I went, oh, let me hear that. Yeah, I am so tired. Drama triangles are exhausting.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:18]:
Yeah. Don't you feel, though, that we need to. In order to grow and learn and get out of this triangle, you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Because if people are very used to living here and just, like, bouncing around into this. In this triangle all the time, you have to learn. These are. These are mindset shifts. These are behavior shifts. And as adults, like, you know, it's. It's much more difficult as adults because we're like, I am who I am. You deal with me, or you don't deal with me. You know, like, I. I. This is my practice, or I'm the leader here. I'm the office manager here, and you're gonna. You're gonna listen to this. And you're right. But I think that we have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable if you want to shift in life. In life, this isn't workplace. These are relationships.
Christine Brondyke [00:30:15]:
This is marriage.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:16]:
This is parenting. It's all the things.
Christine Brondyke [00:30:20]:
It's all the things. And when we're stuck in the triangle, another way to know you're stuck in the triangle is if you know already. I already know what they're going to say. I already know what the outcome is going to be. So there's only one option. I already know it. And I'm not a huge fan of AA for reasons that they actually teach the triangle that people are a victim of disease and then try and have people shift their addiction within that system, which will never work. However, they have great sayings, and one of the Greatest things in AA is your best thinking. Got you here, addicted, sitting in a circle saying, I'm an addict. And so if we can sort of recognize, oh, my know-it-all persona, which is a little bit of hero and sometimes with some villain. My, my, you know, oh, I know that my resistance to discomfort. I don't want to step out of my comfort zone. Those are the kinds of things that will keep us stuck. And it's okay. Some people, we're going through an extended family kind of situation right now. And one, one of my relatives said, he's not going to change.
Cassie Kellner [00:31:43]:
Great.
Christine Brondyke [00:31:44]:
There are some people who are like, I'm going to do it till I get into the grave the way I'm going to do it.
Cassie Kellner [00:31:53]:
And so, Christine, I will ask you because I listen, you're a life coach that has changed lives, like genuinely. And so you should be so incredibly proud of that. It is such a beautiful thing to listen to you and to watch. And I have been in deep rooted therapy for 10 years. Right. And to work through all the things in life. And now it's kind of like I've 10 years is a long time of consistent therapy. Now it's situational. It's not working through whatever. It was that big monumental thing that I really needed to work through initially. However, therapy, life coaching doesn't work if you are not willing to do the work. And so that's why 10 years for me, I mean, I have shifted Christine out of this drama triangle. My best friend in the whole world, who's been my best friend since I was five years old. I'm 40. She was the maid of honor in my wedding. I was in hers. Her husband married us. Like we are intertwined. She lives in California, I live in Connecticut. We are very. She's my sister. Right. She texts me when this happened, Christine, and was like, oh, you lived in villain and hero. In our friendship, in friendships. Right. Because we have this group of friendships. We've been friends since we were little girls forever. And I was like, I know. You know what's really funny, Christine? We have the same therapist.
Christine Brondyke [00:33:36]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:37]:
And we have done the work and continue to do the work and do the work on our friendship. And it's so I'm thinking even out of the workplace, like, I have had to get uncomfortable. Right?
Christine Brondyke [00:33:54]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:55]:
To be comfortable in this new mindset, shift and behavior. And this drama triangle still happens in my life. Let me, like, let me be very clear. I, you know, I can fall into any of these categories at any given moment, but there's something about me, where I go, oh, yeah, this is exhausting. I don't want to live here. I don't want to live here, and I can't. To your point is why I'm telling you this is because you said if the person doesn't want to get out of this triangle, then my question to you is, can you make the choice to get out?
Christine Brondyke [00:34:34]:
That's the only choice. And the good news is it's the only choice we need. It's the only choice we have. I don't have control of other people. It is enough for me to get out. In fact, again, I have a mentor that's like, if you think it's so important that they make a shift, you do it. Because we'll so often say if you don't change. Well, sometimes they're too afraid, they're too resistant. Their brain chemistry isn't ready for it. It's not friendly to try and enforce somebody else to do something. You. It is friendly for me to say I can't change them and they don't want to change anyway. What could I do for some of my people, I love them from a distance, so it's like, you don't have to change. And what's going to work for me, given the current setup, is I love you. You know, we don't have a lot of connection phone visits, whatever, but I can, I can appreciate you. I can do silent appreciations and appreciate me for being willing to make some changes. What's interesting, you know, Mahatma Gandhi said, be the change you want to see. And the reason is that's the only place of true power. So if I see out there somebody's impatient, telling them, hey, you're impatient and you should be more patient is on the triangle. And it's not going to really change anything. They already know. And if they could change it, they would. Yes. But I might say, could I be patient with their impatience? I have agency here. I have the ability. And maybe they're my. And I would argue that they are my best teacher in that moment. If I think patience is so important, I'll do it.
Cassie Kellner [00:36:25]:
Christine.
Christine Brondyke [00:36:26]:
That is how we're going to change the world.
Cassie Kellner [00:36:28]:
How. How can people work with you? We haven't even talked about this. And I know that you don't do. You're not doing this for plug that I'm giving you right now.
Christine Brondyke [00:36:42]:
Just the question makes me a little nervous. But I love the question. I don't advertise. It's always been referral. I. I think There's a website out there. It's. It could also be defunct. The best way is for, is for you to list my phone number. Believe it or not. Like I'm old enough that I, I don't actually care about social media. I don't do a lot of posting and text me and tell me that you'd like to do a free consultation call and then we, we, we go from there.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:12]:
Can I tell you something about your sessions though too? Is that. And stop me at any point. Christine. But if people aren't willing to do the work, what is your, what is your mindset? Like, what happens if you're in a session and you're doing this with teams? Right. Let's pretend it's teams or one on one with an orthodontist or dent, whoever. It doesn't have to be in our industry. And they. You're noticing patterns over and over and you're just having the same conversation.
Christine Brondyke [00:37:47]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:47]:
This is what I love about you is what happens if they're not willing to shift.
Christine Brondyke [00:37:56]:
So this is perfect. Want another way to get out of the triangle? And I can only get myself out of the triangle. And you can only get yourself out of the triangle. We can't get others out of the triangle. If I'm working with a client who's resistant, then one thing, this has happened where I've gotten into Hero as a coach. Therapists will do it too. And then I'll try and convince you to make a shift and I'll be like, well, let me explain and let me justify. But it doesn't work. And if I catch myself in the triangle doing that, I'm almost always leaning forward and trying to convince them of something. And then I'll shift in that moment back into presence. And when I'm present with myself or anybody that's resistant, it is enough. And this is why it's so powerful to say you don't want to and let's make space for that. Because how many of us already feel pressured to be better and thinner and more wise and more organized and there is some relevance to quit trying to make me be different.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:06]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:39:07]:
You know, we sort of live in a self improvement, you know, commodity kind of, you know, you buy this, do this workout at this gym. Sometimes when I'm working with somebody and they're really blocked, it is enough to say, let's just sit with, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not thinking or doing anything. And give that space. And what's fascinating is that a little bit of Presence often creates a crack because we're not pushing, because I'm not asking something of them. In fact, it's in presence that there have been, I can't say, millions of times, thousands of times, where emotion will come through that crack.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:57]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:39:58]:
And that's a shift. And so it's like we think of ourselves as having to do to create shifts. And sometimes we do. I'll actively appreciate I'll make a shift that way. I'll go for a walk, I'll create some change in my body posture. That can be a shift. But when there's a real block, it's enough to say, let's just tell the truth about this moment and not change it. And so that's where the being comes in as a shift. And why, when people don't want to feel that discomfort, I may say, well, let's sit in the resistance, because the resistance is uncomfortable. And now you're demonstrating to your nervous system, hey, I can do a little bit of discomfort. And so there are very few people I can't work with. Very few. I have fired. In almost 30 years, I fired two clients.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:51]:
Wow.
Christine Brondyke [00:40:53]:
And. And the reason is that my job as a coach is to take somebody where they're at and be with them first and then look for the opening. And it's kind of very much like being a coach of sports. Some people are intellectually open. I'll think about it. It can also be a trap because you never get out of thinking about it. Some people are creative geniuses, and they're not going to analyze their way. So me trying to give them analytical responses, it's like, hey, how about if we move creatively? And then they'll say, I can breathe deeper. That's a shift. So there's. I'm working holistically, and I'm somatically trained. So that means incorporating the body's wisdom alongside the mind' wisdom. And so when we're doing it, whether in a group setting, in an individual setting, it's simply about, where is this person at and how can I best support them? That's my job. And there will be times there, I have had two orthodontists where the patterns kept repeating. And so then I have to look at what could I do differently? Because what I'm offering isn't. It's not happening. They are open. They created tremendous shifts in some regards, but there were some underlying patterns. And I just said, hey, when you're willing, and if it's not now, that's okay. Because again, sometimes our Nervous system can't be pushed into it. We have to. You know, I've had one of my first couple clients reached out to me 10 years later, and they were like, we're stuck. And I have tremendous ADD, but something about ADD, like, I've got a good memory. I remembered the original glitches. I remembered some of them. And so I said, let's just jump back in. And it was maybe three, four sessions. They were good to go. You know, I think I heard from them a few years after that. So this is a kind of process where, you know, you said something really important, Cassie. You said, what if somebody's really hard on themselves and does that impact how they speak with others? They say, I don't know if it's true that Einstein asked the question that there was only one really relevant and important question, and that is, is the universe friendly? And if you had asked me that in my growing up years in my 20s and in my early 30s, I would have said, oh, heck no. And I have all the proof, you know.
Cassie Kellner [00:43:39]:
Yeah.
Christine Brondyke [00:43:40]:
But what I've learned is, as I've created shifts in my own being, I became more friendly. I became more friendly to me and from that place, more friendly to others. And I can be challenging as a coach. I can be firm. I can be. I can hold somebody accountable. In fact, that's some of my most fun work. But it's from this place of I'm not going to push you, I'm not going to mold you. I don't do anything. I'm the guide, I'm the support. And to the extent somebody's open, they'll open. But I use the analogy, it's like trying to force a flower bud to bloom. I'll break has to happen in its own time. And that's actually, for me, the holiness of it. And you could think about that as a spiritual thing, or you could think about it as like whole, like W H O L E. It's. It's. That's the unfolding of our. Of our wholeness in humanity. And, and some of the. I mean, what are we doing here?
Cassie Kellner [00:44:44]:
Yeah. You know, Christine, it makes me. It gives me goosebumps when you say, I. If I force a flower, a bud to bloom, I'll break it. Because that is like the absolute quintessential reason why ever bloom was born. And.
Christine Brondyke [00:45:02]:
Yeah, that's right. It's in the name.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:04]:
You know, it just. It's so important to me to grow our people. And this is what my mission is all about. What this podcast is all about. So I just. Christine, thank you so much for explaining how to get out of this drama triangle and, and what those shifts look like and what those behaviors look like and what that mindset looks like. I just, I can't thank you enough. Please, please, let's do part three.
Christine Brondyke [00:45:35]:
Two more. I mean, there's like 20 more shift moves we can, you know, and if people want to write into you and ask questions, sometimes it's easier for me when you ask a question or if somebody's asking a question, to speak to something specific. So it's my pleasure. It is. I feel fortunate that in my 30s, I was like, this is what I'm here to do. Like, literally, this is why I'm on the planet. And I get the joy of getting to do it. There's nothing better.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:10]:
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team first. If today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit discovereverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
