Cassie Kellner [00:00:01]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff. Honest convos, leadership lessons, and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead, and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:22]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, and I am.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:33]:
Oh, Jeff Kwong. Dr. Jeff Kwong. Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I am so thrilled that you're here and that we're finally doing this.
Jeff Kwong [00:00:37]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:38]:
Thank you so much for being here.
Jeff Kwong [00:00:40]:
I'm glad to be here, Cassie. Thank you for having me.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:43]:
Oh, my gosh. Okay, Jeff, we. Let's go back. We met years and years ago at a meeting, and then we connected again post meeting, post pandemic, post all the things, and we work together using asana. You were already using asana. Your asana. I'm not kidding, Jeff. Like, it's probably. I. I think I said this to you was one of the most beautiful things I had ever. I couldn't believe what was going on in that asana and the things that you had created, which is a direct correlation to how your mind works. And I felt like I. I don't.
Jeff Kwong [00:01:27]:
Think it's a compliment anymore.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:29]:
No, no, I got a. Oh, gosh. You're so systematic. I cannot wait to do this with you and. And chat through all of these things. Jeff, I always start this podcast with. Are you ready? Who is Dr. Jeffrey Kwong?
Jeff Kwong [00:01:50]:
All right, so Dr. Jeffrey Kwong is a husband. I met my wife Lisa, in Cleveland while we were in dental school. Best thing that happened to me ever. And after dental school, so Lisa's from Sacramento. I'm actually out of Sacramento, California, right now, but I'm originally from Toronto, Canada. So I went back to Canada, practiced for a little bit, and then made my way over to California. And I'm also the father of two great boys, Ryan and Alex, and been practicing orthodontics since I graduated, since 2007. And I guess I'm just. You know, when I think about orthodontics, it's my passion. I love it. I love everything about it. I teach on some weekends for a dental assisting school that's just up the street from where I practice. I'm involved on the California Association of Orthodontists board, but I also am just a regular guy who likes to go have a great cup of coffee and also likes to travel, likes to ski, and spend time with my kids, watching soccer or volleyball on the weekends.
Cassie Kellner [00:02:49]:
Oh, my gosh, I love this. Okay, so. Okay, well, I have to get into this. Like, first you say that you're on the board of the California association of Orthodontists, but something very big is about to happen in a couple of days. Do you want to talk about this?
Jeff Kwong [00:03:09]:
Yeah, sure. So I've been serving on the board since 2019. I've got to say that something that I never thought that I would ever do. What people will tell you who've been in these positions before is someone taps you on the shoulder and says something like, hey, do you want to be involved a bit more? And I'm like, yeah, I do want to be involved a bit more. Because at the time, there was a lot of direct to consumer orthodontics challenges going on. It was something that was. We really weren't sure how to. How to actually address some of these things. And so when, when the time came, I basically, since 2019, have been asked to assume some positions on the board. So I. I'm the legislative chair on the CAO. I. I've served on a couple other committees. I sit on other committees. That's how our board works, is. It's organized into different committees. And at one point they asked me and said, you know, there was a conversation, you know, private phone call, hey, Jeff, you know, what are you thinking? We've. Some of our members think you'd be, you know, suited for a more leadership, more of a leadership role. And I thought to myself immediately, no, I'm turning this down. And I actually did. I turned it down originally because I wasn't really sure. You know, I think that with a lot of these types of things, you know, who knows what a great, A great president or a great, you know, a great leader is going to look like in terms of that position? I think that it's a bit daunting because the people before me were so amazing in their own rights. Right. And some of these people are, you know, master clinicians. They've got amazing practices. They've got, you know, their head on their shoulders. And not that I don't feel like I do, but at the same time, yeah, there's a bit of imposter syndrome, like, how am I supposed to fill in these shoes? And am I gonna. Am I gonna do the right thing for the, for our members when the time comes? And so getting to your question, and what's happening in a few, in next week actually, or next two weeks, is that at the Western Orthodontic Conference or WOCON, I'm going to be installed as president. And so I agreed to, like, when they came back around, I. I thought about it and said, you know what? Like, I put a lot of time and effort into this. I do know what's happening with the board. I think I've got a pretty good grasp of what we can do to serve our members. And so, yeah, next. Next, at the. At the conference, I'll be installed as president of the CAO.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:29]:
Oh, my gosh, Jeff. Okay, wait, can we go back? This isn't even something that we really talked about, but I think it's incredibly important and so humble of you to say, like, I initially turned it down, and then you had to really think on it. Like, this was not an impulsive decision on your end. Like, clearly, you put some serious thought into this. And. And then you were like, you know what? I think I am going to do this. And then the imposter syndrome hits. Right? Or it hits before. Let's get real. And you're like, can I do this? Should I be doing this? What can I offer? And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, too, of, like, I want to make this as great as humanly possible in the short amount of time that I get to become this leader. Right. I'm sure. I mean, you and Lisa had many conversations about it, and. And. And ultimately. Right. I'm sure this was a conversation of, like, should I do this? And now it's happening, and you've made the ultimate decision to do this. And I think it's. It's really. I want to speak to this point, too, Jeff. You. This, like, wasn't your path or your journey. Like, when you graduated from residency, you weren't like, hey, this is the ultimate goal. Like, this is where I'm going to be. How does it feel now, like, being where you are and now going to be appointed into this really wonderful CAO president position? How do you feel right now, you know, going into that?
Jeff Kwong [00:07:11]:
Yeah, I mean, I feel a lot of responsibility. I think that's a natural feeling. I feel a lot of gratitude for those who've come. Come before me, because I think people don't know. I mean, they do know. These are all volunteer roles. No one's.
Cassie Kellner [00:07:24]:
Yes.
Jeff Kwong [00:07:24]:
We're not being paid to do this type of thing. We're purely doing this because we want to serve our specialty. Right. We want to serve our members, and. And we want to kind of open their eyes, too, that. That none of this can happen unless people are stepping forward to. To do something right. To actually stand up for something. So I, I'll give a shout out to my residency just because. Case Western Reserve University Department of Orthodontics was one of the best things that's happened to me in my entire life as well. At least up there, because number one crew or Case Western Reserve, it was just amazing. And my chairman, Mark Hans, my mentors, Marty Palomo, Manish Valiathan. And I, I ran into Manish at one of his leadership meetings, actually, I think it was two years ago now. But I wasn't expecting to see him. And it was just amazing. And we said, I said to him, like, hey, it's so glad. It's so amazing to get back together. But the gratitude I'm expressing now is that Mark or Dr. Hans had the foresight to get us exposed to everything, whether it's like, academic things, whether it is through, you know, leadership, through being involved in the AO in some form at the different, the different levels and just being, having that foresight to show us. Because I never thought I would ever, ever do this right. And yeah, and to my point, when I met back up with my mentor Manish, he said, hey, Jeff, like we, yeah, we all have like different roles to serve. I'm glad you, I'm glad to meet you to see you back here in this capacity. You're doing a whole lot for the specialty in California. And I was like, yeah. And I'm realizing like for him, he's serving as a teacher, he's also doing leadership things. And then separately it was. We had a conversation about my. One of my co residents, Sebastian Baumgaertel. He lectures on the circuit for like, and does a lot of publications and then, you know, teaching. And so it's just like there's many different ways to give back. And I think that that's what I want to press upon people is that, you know, yes, do give back with your money, People will take it. Right? That's a normal thing. But also do give if you have the ability to, and you're curious about how you can make something better or you can, you can change something. All it takes is that, that, that time to say, how can I be involved? And it might be in a small capacity. It might be, yeah, maybe it's like you donate $100 to the CAO for supporting our pack. Maybe you are donating your time to serve on a committee and maybe you have more time and you want to actually be a board member, for example. So there's just a lot of ways to get involved. And I think that that's and, you know, sometimes you don't get the gratitude that. Because people don't see the full side of things. But, but I feel inside the fulfillment of being, you know, being a member and being in this role and having the opportunity.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:05]:
Jeff, what do you want to say, see happen during this presidency? Like, what would be the mo. I mean, I'm sure you want to see a million and one things and there's probably not enough time, but, you know, California is a massive state and you're in Northern California. Right. What do you. And you guys. I believe you have one of the highest members of most of the, of the United States as well, or you're up there. What do you, what do you want to see happen during this presidency?
Jeff Kwong [00:10:41]:
Well, I think that our board is for, for the size, you know, we're pretty effective board. I, I should know the numbers, but I can't tell you exactly how many board members we have. I want to say it's about 10. But the, the point is that we get a lot done for 10 board members, but we rely on people to be in these committees as well. I think that my focus, my focus for the last three years has been more on the legislative side of things, and that's going to continue. Right now there's a lot of workforce concerns that are happening in California. And you're right, we are the biggest component of all the states. So when we're having workforce issues, we know that these are things that are going to trickle down to, you know, other states as well. So trying to solve some of these problems where, you know, how can we, how can we get, you know, allied assistance and people, basically dental auxiliaries into the, into the workforce in an easier way where they're still skilled, they're still trained, but how can we get them into our offices so we have staff to be able to help treat our patients? Because ultimately that's what we want to work on. We don't want there to be some sort of challenges with access to care because we can't provide the services necessary. Right.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:47]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:11:47]:
Without the team that we need. Because we all, we all need our teams to be successful.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:52]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that.
Jeff Kwong [00:11:56]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:56]:
Can we talk through, Jeff, just your journey now that we're on it? I mean, we are on it at this point.
Jeff Kwong [00:12:03]:
Yeah, sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:12:04]:
What. Let's just talk through. Do you have, like, a pivotal moment in your career that shaped the way you lead? Because, I mean, let's get real. Right now you're going into like, the ultimate Leadership position. You're a leader in your practice. Right. It is your practice, but this is a whole different ball game. Like, so can you talk about, has there. Has there been a pivotal moment in your career that shaped the way that you lead in one way or the other?
Jeff Kwong [00:12:37]:
Yeah, I think that, I mean, there's something I think about, and I think that, you know, there's the awesome sides of practice. Like, again, this is my passion. Right. There's also the not so awesome sides. Right. And I think every clinician and every. Every leader will tell you that there's humbling moments and times when, you know, things don't go right. Right. And I could think of a time when things weren't going right. There was friction between myself and a team member. And I think that the challenge that I was had as a leader was having tough conversations. And I still, you know, no doubt it's still a challenge for me, but what I will say is that, you know, when. When you are in. Put in that role and that responsibility of being a leader, there's. It's up to you to figure out how you're going to improve on those things. Right. And so the daily, like, how can I get a little bit better every day? Right. How can I. How can I improve these types of skills? How can I, you know, work on these types of things? And one part of it was just doing some. Some simple reading and kind of like listening to some leadership books, audiobooks, that kind of stuff. I'm sure I know you've done a ton of stuff, but I know we connected at that meeting. We talked a little bit about Brene Brown.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:44]:
Yes.
Jeff Kwong [00:13:45]:
And so Dare to Lead. And. And then I think that when. When I think about how we met at that meeting, it was me kind of like, because I was in this situation where there. Where I didn't really know how to handle the leadership part of things. We went to, like, a management meeting, and that's where I met you. Right.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:03]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:14:04]:
And so. So that really was the. The impetus of kind of like, okay, I need to level up and figure out a little more about what leadership and management looks like, because, yeah, no one really teaches you these types of things. And I think that that's something that you do have to kind of build up these, these building blocks, these fundamentals along the way. And I'm still working on these types of things, but the meeting gave me the impetus to kind of take a look at myself as a whole and figure out, you know, hey, what am I, what am I good at? Here, what can I actually do? Well, and then what are the things that I'm. I'm not doing so well? What can I hand off that would be good to. To hand off? Because I think delegation is one of those things that leaders have to figure out how to do. How can I delegate this to my team to handle something? Because there are certain things that I only I can do, and I want to handle those things. And sometimes they are things that I don't like. And. And then the other part is, is that trying to get to. To, you know, hand off the things that we, We. We just have to be able to do so that we can get things done. But getting to, to my point or getting to a point, I would say I think that as a leader, you have to know yourself well. And I think it has to start there and knowing, you know, what your. The things you're really good at are and what the really challenging things are. And if I can spend just a couple moments, I'll just talk a little about what I mean by that. Like, one book that I thought was really amazing for me was called the Working Genius. And it's. It basically talks about there's kind of six different parts of work. And my tendency is that I tend to be in the first couple parts of work, which are like, asking questions, wondering, and then inventing ideas. And so when you saw my asana, you have all these different things, all these different ideas and wondering, and then you'll notice that, gosh, some of it didn't get finished right. So, like, the end parts of work really rely on things like enablement from team members who are able to take on what you're holding, and then tenacity, which is my challenge, finishing things off. So, like, I've got these, you know, I'd say frustrations as. As the book calls them that. That make it challenging. So I. So I think that when I think about now, how I want to organize my team and myself and set myself up as leaders, I'm going to put people on my team who have that enablement and tenacity into certain roles to help me finish certain things off. And for me, knowing that I don't, I'm not as good at that, it makes me. I feel more grateful to understand that, gosh, you know what? Not always are we gonna get things right, but I. But am I grateful that they're there to help get these things done for me? Absolutely. Because if I didn't and if I had just a whole bunch of, you know, wonder inventors like myself. God, nothing would get done. Right. It would just be chaos. So absolutely. Doing some things to help to. I mean, now that I know that better, it really has changed the way things work. And so, for example, like, even at home, we use this language. And Lisa knows about this as well. But Lisa is a discernment tenacity person. And because discernment is also my challenge.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:13]:
Yes.
Jeff Kwong [00:17:14]:
She, you know, if I come up with a whole bunch of ideas, she's like, yes, no, yes, no, this works. This doesn't work. And then we've got to figure out, like, you know, things, you know, in terms of getting things done. She's great at kind of leading that task. And sometimes I know that when she's trying to get things done, her language might be like, it might look a certain way. And yeah, I've got to level up and be like, okay, you know, she's not trying to, like, do anything. She's. She's helping me, and I need to step up my tenacity to do it. So the communication that comes along came along with this book and this thing, I never thought I would buy into it. At least 100% thought it was the fakest, most phony thing ever.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:50]:
Really?
Jeff Kwong [00:17:51]:
Yeah, until we, until we, we had a little bit more discussion about, you know, where. Where do our strengths lie? Because ultimately it's kind of interesting that for, for us, we kind of have, like, overlapping competencies in the middle, but our frustrations are actually exactly the opposite. And so we compliment each other pretty well.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:07]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:18:08]:
And that's rung true in the practice too.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:11]:
You know, it's really interesting too, because I, and I talk about this often. I feel like self reflection as an adult is really difficult because you have to admit your faults and you have to admit all of these things and, and you, you do. I'm sure when you read this book too, Jeff, you had many. Aha. Mom also had moments where you went like, oh my gosh, that's totally me. Like, and you had to admit that, like, this might not be the best thing. But honestly though, without that, there is no growth. Truly. Right. How could you grow in your practice if. If you, you did not know? And by the way, sometimes you know already, and then all of a sudden you read it in black and white and you go, like the light bulb goes off and you go, oh, my gosh. And it's so much easier, in my opinion, to have literature or to have something there, something tangible to go, yeah, okay, now how do I change this? Because. Yeah, and that be. That becomes the growth 100.
Jeff Kwong [00:19:21]:
So just talk about exactly what you just said. Because I'm a wonder and inventor. What that looks like to other people who are my team members is like, why is Jeff asking all these questions? Like, does he not. Does he not trust that I'm getting this done? Is this not good enough for him? Like, what is the deal with this part? And I think it made people realize because we all did this type of little testing or we went through this together, and then as soon as they read it, they're like, oh, my God, that's why you always ask us questions about these things. And I was like, yeah, that's. I just. I'm just very curious about a lot of things. Too many things, for example.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:59]:
Yes.
Jeff Kwong [00:20:00]:
And. And it just helped to create that language where they understood and say, hey, like, I'm just wondering about this. Literally, that's what the language is. And.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:09]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:20:09]:
And so. But it also gives me the opportunity to also say, like, hey, when someone's coming back in at the back end of work, like, I really shouldn't. I really kind of have to tone down if it's good to work and we can improve on system later on. So let's celebrate the wins and let's maybe not be like, ask 50 questions again and be like, is this ever going to be good enough? Right. So. But that's. That's the thing is that, like, you would never know that if there wasn't something tangible for the team to look at and for myself to look at to say, that's just how he communicates. That's nothing to do with, like, it's nothing to do with you as a, as an employee and whether or not you're capable. It has more so about, you know, that's just Jeff, he just asks a lot of questions and tries to find. Tries to find answers for things and tries to make it. Make things. Make solutions to make things work.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:55]:
Yeah, I'm sure it went from like, why are we always feeling interrogated? To. No, this is actually just the way that Dr. Kwong processes things. And, like, this is his process. And it goes from, like, he doesn't trust me to. No, he really trusts me. And now we're going to level up. Like, that's really all it is. You know, it's just the communication. Right, Jeff? I hope everyone listening to this right now, and they can use any tool they want to use, but that does something like this, to look inward to be able to explain who you are and gives your team members an opportunity to explain who they are. Because it's not just you. It's. It is your practice, but you have this incredible team who collaborates every single day who, by the way, all speak a different type of language. And so now you get this, and you get to be able to have a conversation, and it flows a lot better because you understand one another on a deeper level.
Jeff Kwong [00:22:04]:
Yeah. And so someone actually said the. Like, you know, use one of the words the other day, and she said, oh, this person's really galvanizing. And that's one of. That's one of the geniuses. And yeah, that's what, that's what Marcy's particular skill is that she's got. Galvanizes the team and she's bringing people together after some of that, you know, discernment is done. So it's, it's definitely an interesting thing. And I think that, again, if you don't know yourself, how are you going to lead. How are you going to lead others if you don't know yourself? It's. It's really challenging because, you know, you've got to build the communication skills that are necessary to do so. And I think that if you're unsure about yourself or know stuff well enough, it's hard to come from. With authenticity.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:43]:
Yeah, absolutely. Did it give you an opportunity, Jeff, to let go of some things? Because let's get real. As a business owner, when you first get started, it's like you're doing it all right. Like, you're, you're fixing the toilet. You're, you're, you're the IT guy. You're. You're all the things initially. Right. Like a million years ago, and now you've come to a place, right, since 2007, where you delegate some of these things on. But to get to that delegation, did this allow you to let go and, and let them take on more than you were originally comfortable with?
Jeff Kwong [00:23:21]:
Yeah, I think so. I mean, because again, like, knowing that people have that ability to do so, it makes me feel more appreciated. They. They're able to help. And, And I think that when you're working in your. In your genius and they're doing, if that's their, you know, their strength is taking on the work once it's been given, having a good understanding and they're able to get it to completion, like, that's what makes them feel good. Right. So I think that's something that definitely makes. It gave me more of that ability to learn. Hey, I can. I can trust this person to do this. Part I can, I can put that out there and have them take this and come to the end to me and show me the finished product and go from there?
Cassie Kellner [00:23:57]:
Yeah, absolutely. So you have a full understanding of yourself and your leadership. And by the way, there's still messy moments. Let's get real. We're all human. Are you kidding? You know, there is no magic wand here. We constantly have to work at this stuff all the time. You are very much. I learned this about you in the meeting that we met in. You are very much a systems person and you do ask a ton of questions and you want to know and you want to grow and you want to build. So you use, you use Asana. We've already established that. But you also use Loom. Can we talk about you using Loom and documenting your processes and what does that look like for you and how important is that for practices to document? Oh, gosh, Jeff, the fact that you're doing this, it's 2025. You're not using a dusty paper binder anymore. Can we talk through this kind of evolution of now recording systems? Like, what. How did you come across Loom? Like, how did this happen?
Jeff Kwong [00:25:13]:
Yeah, so it was one of my study clubs where someone had just kind of briefly mentioned it. I think it was my friend Jordan Lamberton out in Napa. And it was just a conversation and I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. Like, it records, you know, the, the actual camera, basically. So we're camera facing right now. It'll be recording the camera, but it's also recording the screen and what you're saying. And so when I, when I want to talk through and document systems, what I do is I just create a video of what that system is. And I will say I will first review that system with the person who actually is running the system. Because that's a terrible idea to have the doctor say it because oftentimes we may not be fully in tune with that, but. But sometimes we, you know, what I found, like, is that we just talk it through. And the beautiful part about Loom as a software and there's other softwares out there that probably do the same thing, but is that it's not only recording you, but there's an AI component to it where it's going to take your transcript and it'll ask you if you want, if you want to generate an SOP or a standard operating procedure with it, and it's always yes, click on yes. Right. So you've got to pay for that part. And it's pennies on the dollar for what you're getting out of it. And so, you know, for me, what that looks like is I'll take that loom video, I'll generate the sop. I may need to regenerate it a couple times to make sure I'm getting the right. The right rendition of what it is. But what it also includes is screenshots of some of the points I'm trying to, you know, my main points in the sop, and they're not always correct, but they're pretty good. And it'll give you links to that time in the video. And what we'll do is just copy and paste that over into Asana. And that's the part is trying to figure out how you're going to organize this on it to make it so that you have the information, you know, you need. So, like, yeah, like, if it's in the clinical. If it's a clinical system, maybe it's. I'm putting in my. In a quick reference guide so that people can go back to that part. And, And I think that it's. It's. What I love about it is it's great. It's. It's a good way for me to know that there's something that's there because, yeah, a lot of times, and I've been this. In this situation before where I've had a person, not a system, and that's challenging because people have things that go on in their lives. They may not be there to support you in the time when you need that information. And so just documenting the process, and I think that what I've learned in the last year, I got to give a shout out to Chelsea, my practice coordinator. She's no longer with me because she's back into medicine. But what I will say is just keeping organized in a certain way, kind of knowing that you have dates on when these SOPs are made. And then if something's not relevant, if something's not relevant anymore, then you kind of have to create some sort of system to show that, hey, this is our old one. But that's not what we're using at this point in time. Right. So it's just a way for us to stay organized. And I think that, like, my great hope is that, yes, people will use these videos to look through and, and sometimes they do, and when they're training. And what I will say, though, is that I also have to be okay with knowing that it's for me that I have a system documented in place as well, right, so it's twofold. We can use it for training, but we also use it just because it's my safety net.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:19]:
Yes.
Jeff Kwong [00:28:20]:
In case something happens.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:22]:
Yes. Jeff, that is such a good point. I cannot stress what you just said enough. Like, we create all these systems, and sometimes I believe that the frustration too is like, I mean, I, I've seen so many memes on this of like, I'm training the new hire, and then they ask the same question when the video is right there. The process is right there. But like, it's like, wait, didn't we just go over this last week? You know, But I, I think what's, what's key here is that you are creating a system. And, and I love loom. I love it. I use it in my own business if I'm answering questions for people. And I, I mean, I, I've probably sent you countless looms in answering questions. I, I just, I, I love it. I love the SOP portion. And, and let's get honest. Everything, everything that we're using, well, most things that we're using have. We just have to look for it. You know, it's, it's generating. People get so stressed out. I mean, I have discovery calls all the time where people are like, I don't have one sop. And it's like, that's not the, the problem is not the SOP. We can, we can create those SOPs very quickly. It's getting, getting the system from someone else that's doing it. And really what you've created, Jeff, is, is peace of mind and a safety net that if you do lose that individual, they go on maternity leave, whatever the case may be, that you have something there to be able to hand off to the next person. And you yourself, as the leader, practice owner, orthodontist, can also review the system. Like, why isn't this working? And you can go back in 100%.
Jeff Kwong [00:30:11]:
Because systems are made to break. And when you, when you break it, you just make a new video or you make it, you update your things, and then all of a sudden, you know you have a starting point.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:20]:
Yeah. Oh, gosh. Loom everyone. L o O M. If you don't know about it, do yourself a favor. I'm pretty sure there's a free version. I have a paid version too, because I use it so much. But. And obviously, as you know, you have to have. There's different levels where you can get all the things, but I, it's such a wonderful tool. I love that you're using this can we shift gears here to AI and what are your thoughts on AI and orthodontics? Or do you even have thoughts on AI and orthodonticics and.
Jeff Kwong [00:30:58]:
Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Actually, I think that, I think that there's thoughts in my head because my last year has been spent a lot on rebuilding systems and revamping systems and going over things. I think that there's going to be opportunities for AI and our practice management softwares. I'm hoping so at least because there's so many tedious things that like now if you've ever had to step in, because I had to step in and say, what do you guys do for this? And you're like, you actually hear what happens and what they need to go in the number of steps. And you're like, oh my God, that is, that is a terrible number of steps. And it doesn't hurt, it doesn't help when I'm using like software from the 1999s or whatever else it is. Right. Like it's not a party, it's, it's terrible. And it's, there are challenges with some of these things and you're like, okay, how there's got to be a better way. Right? Like, I mean, things like insurance, verification. It's so time consuming. Why in the world would we not have something that would do this for us and yeah. Not have to have a human be on the phone for an hour waiting for, you know, a five second answer or something like that.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:01]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:32:01]:
Like, I think about things like with communication with, with parents and patients. There's got to be ways where I've seen things where there's the possibility of like AI front desk or AI phone answering or AI text, like these types of things that could very well be trained from how we do things that would make for hopefully a little less stress for the orthodontist. You know, like we have, not only would we have a, you know, our people, but we'd also have a system that works hand in hand with our people that would give us more coverage, I guess you could say, is really the word I'm looking for. From a treatment standpoint. I think that there are probably, you know, a lot of things that are going to affect, you know, our, how we, how we move teeth digitally. Because, you know, AI is, AI is a learning system. So I mean, if they're able to learn things like that, that's something that might be, you know, maybe good, maybe bad. It just depends on the, the understanding of the orthodontist at that point on how to move teeth. Right. So I think that there's. It's scary in some ways, but it's also. I think it's also could be a really good thing because from a leadership standpoint, too, like, you know, we just talked about how are we getting better? Well, yeah, I'm actually using AI to, To learn leadership better. I mean, there's different ways you can. You know, people are using this to learn languages, whatever else.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:25]:
Yes, there's.
Jeff Kwong [00:33:26]:
There's opportunities here to level up in the different skills we have as well. Not just as orthodontists, but as. As leaders.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:34]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, it's so interesting, too. You graduated in residency in 2007. I started working in the dental field in 2004. And like to think of the evolution, Jeff. Yeah, just of it really is in. That's a very short amount of time, if you think about it. And it's really wild to see this industry evolve into where it is and where it's headed. I'm very excited about it. I'm sure. There's so many opportunities, I think, in this industry for change and to create a more systemized process in a lot of what we're doing to remove some of that tedious work that our team members are kind of bogged down with as well. I'm really excited for the future. I'm also so curious of what the future of orthodontics is from an orthodontist standpoint. Like these residents or people who are in dental school now that are potentially going to be in an orthodontic residency. Like, you know, that's going to be really interesting to see the skills and, and, and they're all gen zers, you know, that are coming out of these residency programs that grew up with technology. So it's exciting to see where this is going to shift. And, And Jeff, I also love that you're. You're already kind of five steps ahead in, in paying attention to this stuff, because I feel like if you aren't paying attention to these things in the future of this industry, you will get left behind very quickly. I mean, things are evolving so fast, you know. Yeah, you, you, you just go ahead.
Jeff Kwong [00:35:34]:
I was just gonna say, like, I don't know what the next six to 12 months is going to look like. Yeah, we're. We're talking with some friends about, you know, is it the time to change practice management systems? And, and my friend Silvana was like, hey, just if you can wait just a little bit just because maybe something really amazing is going to be coming out that we, that we're just up the cusp of this. Wait a little bit if you can. And I think she's absolutely right because you know, there is going to be a big, big change. You're talking about how fast things are moving from like 2007 till now. I would say from just 2020 till now and even since last year to this year, these, these steps are being taken in a much faster pace. Oh, and it's, it's really eye opening.
Cassie Kellner [00:36:15]:
It really is. And I think people really need to be paying attention. And by the way, I know this friend of yours, Silvana, who I absolutely adore. Shout out Silvana Gonzalez. But it's true. And you do have to pay attention because it's a rapid pace.
Jeff Kwong [00:36:34]:
Right?
Cassie Kellner [00:36:35]:
I mean, we thought that going from PBS impressions to scanning was like the biggest thing in the industry. And now look where we are. From the minute we started scanning, everything has changed, you know. Okay, so let's, let's, we'll, we'll, we'll end with this. Jeff, I'm so curious if you have any piece of advice for someone at this point who's just starting out building their practice. Do you have advice for someone and what would it be and why?
Jeff Kwong [00:37:12]:
Yeah, I think that talking about systems and talking about this, I think that that's something you've got to learn soon and fast. I think that and all what systems are is just describing step by step how you do a certain process for a specific part of your practice. Right. But getting help, like, you know, I'm grateful for your help. I think that helping me get organized and helping me look at different parts of my practice were really, really helpful. Like, people don't realize, like I inherited my systems because I bought my practice and they were great for the time that they were great for. But again, growth breaks things. And so even just looking at your schedule and saying, how can I organize? I, I said to myself, I just did this last year. I re, reorganized my schedule and I was like, why in the world did I not do this like 10 years ago? This is crazy. Right? And so whatever you can do to, to document and to, to learn and to, to simplify how you do things, I think that's, that's something that is, we, we spend so much time in our practices, it's really hard to be working on your practice. So maybe that's my advice. Find the time to work on the practice. Yes. Because you're going to be sucked into the practice no matter. No matter what. And that's something that Tracy, you and I had talked about as well. So. Yeah, it's really good advice.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:29]:
Yeah.
Jeff Kwong [00:38:29]:
It's not my own, but it's good advice.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:32]:
Gosh, Jeff. Oh, gosh, I'm such a nerd when it comes to this stuff. You know this. I, I geek out on this stuff too much. But there's a difference between working on your practice and working in your practice. Working in your practice is like patient care and you know, the day to day, but working on your practice and. And then sometimes you hit a level of growth where you're like, just like you said, I haven't worked on my practice, which is schedule revamping, creating systems and SOPs and making sure things. Systems aren't broken and making sure that team members are not going through 15 steps when they could be going through five steps to get to the same point. Right. I think it, that that is such a wonderful thing that you bring up. And I find that I have worked with plenty of startups and people who have taken over as well. Right. Or who were associates and then bought in and now they are fully practice owners. It's never too early to start creating systems and SOPs. You know, SOP, standard operating procedure. People ask me what an SOP is all the time. That is it. It is just a standard operating procedure. Like start from the minute you open your practice, whether you have one team member and they're doing all the things and you're doing it together or you have taken over like you did Jeff, and you had wonderful systems. But then it was time to shift. You know, I think it's really important. That's such a good piece of advice to, to anyone in any capacity that they're building this practice, whether it's a startup and they have, you know, five patients or they've been given patients because they bought in.
Jeff Kwong [00:40:21]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:22]:
Creating these systems is so important.
Jeff Kwong [00:40:26]:
Yeah. And I think it's. It's not talked about enough. And I think that that's. You're right. Like the earlier you do it, that's what's going to pay dividends for the future. Right. It's like investing. You want to start early, you want to start soon. You don't start at the end, you want to start in the beginning. Right. So 100%. Cassie.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:42]:
Oh my gosh. Jeff, listen, congratulations. I am so excited for you. You are going to do amazing things in this presidency. The California Association of Orthodontists is lucky to have you. I am telling you this right now. And also, thank you for being so vulnerable today, Jeff, and saying, like, the imposter syndrome hit, like, we are humans. You know, you are a very successful orthodontist and business owner, and yet imposter syndrome still creeps into all of us.
Jeff Kwong [00:41:18]:
And.
Cassie Kellner [00:41:19]:
And so, you know, it's real. And. And I'm really excited to see what you do in this next year. And congratulations, Jeff. Truly, you. You really deserve this.
Jeff Kwong [00:41:32]:
Thank you. You're too kind. And as I would say this, like any humble leader, last piece of advice is, yeah, that vulnerability is what's necessary to build the connections and trust. And that happens on our board all the time. Right. So this is just one of those things where I've got to thank my board for supporting me, and they do a lot of the work, and we all have been through these positions and we'll be there, support each other, but that's. It takes that vulnerability to. To be able to get to that next level of leadership as well.
Cassie Kellner [00:42:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. Jeff, thank you so much for joining me.
Cassie Kellner [00:42:07]:
Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team first. If today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
