Cassie Kellner [00:00:01]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff. Honest combos, leadership lessons, and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:31]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, and this is the very first time that I get a dynamic duo like you.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:32]:
You're paving the way. I am thrilled that it is with Dr. Sean Holliday and Brianna Fuentes. This is so exciting for me, and we are going to nerd out on all the things today, so. So everyone should just be ready and be prepared. Thank you guys so much for joining me and for doing this.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:00:55]:
Thanks for having us.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:56]:
Yeah, this is so exciting. You guys are together right now on site. Where are you? Texas.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:01:06]:
We're in San Antonio.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:07]:
Okay.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:01:08]:
From Florida to Hawaii and San Antonio. Is that in the middle?
Cassie Kellner [00:01:11]:
In the middle, right. And then all the way over here in Connecticut. I mean, I'm so. Oh, gosh, you guys, I cannot wait. Okay, so, Brianna, you and I go way back, way back to the consulting days. Sean, you and I have met a few times at meetings and things like that. And I. We had a conversation recently where I was like, I. I have seen your relationship behind the scenes, too, and. And the trust that the two of you have built and your journey, and I've watched your journey and I've heard about your journey from Brianna, and I love this. And I think that nowadays it's getting a little bit better, but this is a rarity where you find an office manager that, like, it clicks and you trust and then you get to evolve into all of these other things. And so that's what we're going to be talking about today is your kind of journey together. I'm going to. Everyone kind of love hates this part because you have to talk about yourself, but I'm going to open. Open this up to the both of you on who are you? And. And how did you get here? And you can go individually, you can play off each other however you want to do this in your kind of dual situation over there.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:02:37]:
Ladies first. You get to go first, Bri.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:02:39]:
Yeah, I'm gonna go first because I love to talk and so does he, so.
Cassie Kellner [00:02:43]:
Oh, I can't wait.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:02:44]:
I've been in ortho since high school, and I kind of just evolved into it. I actually was supposed to be going to dental hygiene school, and I decided to stay in ortho for many different kind of reasons. But I went from assistant, and then I broke off from another team, and I became, like, a free agent. Sean and I connected, and originally, he didn't want to hire me because of my schedule. I had limitations on my schedule. So he was like, I can't have that much flexibility, which now flexibility is the key. But back then, it was a little harder. Now we're talking like, a decade ago, too, as well.
Cassie Kellner [00:03:23]:
Right.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:03:23]:
So more than a decade. Yeah, we've known each other more than a decade, child. So when he hired me, he hired me for a marketing position, and originally I didn't take it, and then we ended up back together. But we connected at a time where we were really evolving into many things. So his practice was starting to kick off and grow, and it turned into this. I was supposed to be there for marketing, and then I ended up helping him run the practice. And then we shared a laundry room as an office, like, a year during construction with a partition between us while people were making their lunch.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:04:10]:
It was, like, staring at each other. We're like, we better put a partition here so we have some.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:04:15]:
I can't.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:04:15]:
You can't get anything done? Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:04:18]:
I mean, there was a glass partition between us, and I was like, are you sick of looking at my face? He's like, it's just weird. Like, you know, like, okay, whatever. And then eventually, Sean made me a manager of the practice, and it was just he and I for a couple of years. And finally I was like, hey, we need help. We've grown so much, and we're doing this together. And we realized we couldn't handle it just the two of us anymore. So we ended up hiring and training other leaders and managers for the practice. But he and I have been through some great times, but also some really tough times, personally and professionally. So I think that is a. That's a big thing, too, is, you know, you try to keep it separate, but it really doesn't happen. And I think that's where part of our trust comes to.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:14]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:05:15]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:17]:
Go ahead, Sean.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:05:18]:
Now, I don't live, obviously, in Hawaii. I live in Orlando, so I'm a private consultant for members of his orthomaster class and others, too, as well.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:05:28]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:30]:
Okay. First of all, I didn't know that you shared an office that was also the laundry room. And then there was, like, a makeshift partition situation.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:05:41]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:05:41]:
Yeah, I have a picture. I had a private office, and then that turned into a TC room, and then I was in the closet. Then we took, like, the lounge, and then it was the. The laundry room. And then she got kicked out of her office. So then we had to take up a space. So, you know, it's just part of the. The growth of a practice.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:00]:
Sometimes I feel like this will resonate with. Yes, it'll resonate with so many people because, like, the evolution of, like, hopping around from room to room and going, like, okay, wait, we have this room, and people are sitting in it, but can we turn it into something else that will help with the growth? Because we're bursting at the seams. Right.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:22]:
I lived in a closet for six months, and the fire marshal shut me down and was like, she cannot be in that closet. That's. That's a closet.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:30]:
Can I just take the door off?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:34]:
And they said, no, you can't do that. So finally we were like, we need to expand the office. And we did. We added another, I think, 1400 square feet.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:41]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:41]:
And we finally had our own offices.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:43]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:44]:
Oh, so I love this.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:47]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:48]:
All right, Sean. Who's Dr. Sean?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:50]:
This is my turn now.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:51]:
Yeah, it's yours. It's all you.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:06:55]:
Yeah. I've been in practice now in Honolulu for 21 years. But, you know, I became interested in orthodontics in high school. My brother was a patient. My mom was doing adult orthodontics, and I was in junior in high school. I just decided orthodontics was my jam. It was. It was. It. And it so happens, at the time, I've lived around the world a lot. My dad used to build us embassies and things like that. So at the time, though, I lived in St. Louis, Missouri. And for any of you who know, St. Louis is the headquarters of the American association of Orthodontists. And so I literally went to the AAO headquarters on Lindbergh Boulevard, and I said, hey, I want to be an orthodontist. And they gave me a pamphlet. I mean, the AAO is so good at advocacy. They had great resources and information about how to become an orthodontist. I realized I had to go to dental school. So, you know, I, I. I went to my mom's dentist to observe. I went to ortho to look at clinics to see if that's what I wanted to do. And I just love it. My. My dad's an engineer. My mom's an artist, so I was kind of born to be an orthodontist. It was like the perfect mix in my brain. It was just like, everything is perfect. I love problem solving, you know, strategy kind of stuff. And I just thought it's. Orthodontics is a thinking person's game. You know, it's a lot of planning, strategizing, developing treatment plans. But I just love the art science plus engineering and just the patient care. I think the relationship, I think there's, it's very purposeful work. And my dad worked for, you know, corporation construction job because corporations. I just wanted to own my own business. And orthodontics is probably the best career that you can have. An awesome job and the opportunity to own a business. So that's why I went. So I went to the six year dental program that they had at UMKC, the University of Missouri, Kansas City. I found out the fastest way I could get into ortho was to do two years of college and then four years of dental school. And then I went to Chicago for, for ortho residency. It was amazing. It's like almost a three year program. So I, you know, I went as fast as possible into ortho and then I wanted to take the longest amount of time that I could in residency to, to learn what I, you know, now love to do. And you know, I met a girl from Hawaii, so I moved to Hawaii. I'm not from Hawaii or anything. So I went there and everybody told me not to go there. It's like the worst business environment. It's the highest cost of living. They're like, Sean, you're not from there. It was a struggle. Like the first year I was in practice, the associateship that I had was canceled because the senior doctor got divorced. So I couldn't stay as an associate. But he said I could sublease the space. The first year I made like 40,000 gross is like net was like 50%. So I was asking for forbearance of my loans. And yeah, so I went basically from scratch because the doctor said, no, I'm sorry, I can't keep you as an associate child, but here's six patients you can have my office on these certain days. And then I just subleased space out of some general practice offices, whatever it could do to work. And it took almost 10 years to build my practice to where it was decent. But I was always big into planning, you know, five year, 10 year plans. But my vision was always to have my own practice. And so over time, and as Brianna joined, that was kind of what we were doing is growing and phasing to the point that instead of us subleasing space from general practice or eventually as a periodontist office, and then now we have four of our own practices, and I have four associates, so we quite literally practice on an island. But we have nice, nice, nice practice. It's very.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:08]:
Well, Sean, I think that this is really important because. And this is why I do this podcast, because you are any. You are such an intelligent human. You both are. And you literally started in a crazy amount of debt, right? And then it was like, oh, I think I'm going to do this. But then it didn't work out the way I did it, so now I have to pivot, and then I have to do this, and then. And then this happens. And, like, there are so many layers to an orthodontist journey. And a lot of times, as you know, in this industry, because you're both so incredibly connected, you see sometimes people at the top and people. People forget, right? These. These new grads, these people who are like, oh, I'm just an associate. I'm just taking an associate straight out of residency. I'm not gonna buy. I'm not gonna. Oh, oh, I think I'm gonna do a startup. Like, it looks like this really shiny, beautiful, wonderful thing from the. From the day you get out. And, like. Right. You're laughing because, like, the reality is, is that, like, you're, like, grinding and you're like, listen, we. I have to pivot and I have to do this, and. And these had to get through. And I think that's the beauty of one being a business owner. Right. But I think it's really important to see the evolution of where you were and to hear that you guys were, like, stuck in a laundry room and, you know, sharing an office in that way. And now it's multi location, multi, Dr. Multi, all the things. Lecturing, Ortho Masterclass. Like, it's this. Do you. Do you hear this? Because sometimes I think we also forget to.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:13:05]:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:13:07]:
Get the journey.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:13:08]:
I love to say. I love to use the song, like, started from the bottom, now we're here. Like, we really did. If you think about it, we. We didn't grow overnight, and we didn't. We didn't have. He didn't have a father who handed him a business or. Not that that's a bad thing. But, you know, we really went through the pains and struggles to get where we are.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:33]:
Yeah. And then I didn't know, Sean, that you weren't from Hawaii. So, like, culturally, then you're trying to have to. To gain trust of the environment and the demographics and the people. Right?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:13:46]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:46]:
And oh my gosh, I, I learned so much. We haven't even been on just over 10 minutes. Like, yeah, it's really, I think, incredible for people to hear these stories and to appreciate them, especially people who are just getting started right now or who feel so incredibly overwhelmed with where they currently are in the beginning stages or, you know, I've plenty of clients who opened during a global pandemic and they were like, what did I do? You know, I love that. I had no idea. So, you know, I, I think that that's really important too. And for you guys to self reflect and be like, can you believe this?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:14:32]:
Yeah. I remember I would take dentists out to lunch and I literally, you know, I was charging everything on a credit card and, you know, mounting up credit card debt and I take him out to lunch and they'd be like, hey, thanks Sean, for lunch. You're a really great guy. You know, we'll see what we can do to help your patients. But my so and so orthodontist is my cousin or yeah, you know, my niece or whatever. But, you know, it's great to meet you. And I was like, so it's funny, you know, and you start from the ground up. I think that's important part. A lot of doctors see the end result. I think anything. It doesn't, it's not just an orthodontics. You just, you see people at a certain point today, especially in social media, you'll see where they were. The important part is to look at the journey, understand that it, it, you know, everybody started somewhere and so it's hard to compare when you're, you're in the, you know, in the first floor, but the opportunities is always there. But it's funny, you know, we went from. I was like doing lunch and learns or lunch, taking people out to lunch, doing whatever I could. To the point that Bri joined was as a marketing coordinator. It was a point that I just couldn't do it. I needed someone to take to be my right hand on that end, to, you know, to be social, to be the pr. I'm chatty, like chatty, you know, and then compliment the things that I'm not, not great at, you know, So I think that's the main thing is creating that synergy and, and I think it's a time and place. I know you mentioned, like, for example, at first, honestly, I felt Brianna just was, we weren't ready. I didn't feel like, like I, I knew that she had left another practice yet. There was some Challenges, and it was just not the right time. But then when it became the right time for me and I reached out again to her and I said, you know, it's. How's everything going? And then we reconnected at that point. So I think life is fluid. That's important to understand.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:16:33]:
Happens for a reason.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:34]:
Yeah, absolutely. I love this. I love your journey. And we've talked about this. So I want you guys to kind of talk about the evolution of this relationship. I mean, clearly it started in marketing, but evolved into something much larger than that. And, you know, we've talked about this kind of too. Is what, what. At what point, Sean, did you go, I have to pivot here and trust and I'm going to. And that person is going to be Brianna And Brianna, what did that feel like and look like for you? Obviously, this stuff does not come overnight. We all know this. Right? But, but how did you. How were you able to build that? Brianna, you made a really, really good point in the beginning of. Listen, I think a lot of times we think of, of businesses and sometimes we try too hard to separate personal from professional. And at the end of the day, you have to be professional. You don't have a choice. This is your job. But you are in small practice and these people you spend a ton of time with and you genuinely care about them. And so there does sometimes the lines get blurred a little bit because.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:17:58]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:59]:
You know, and, and in my opinion, people may disagree. They have to. Because these are also your people that you, you know, and so spend every day with.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:18:10]:
Yeah. And you. And you bring your whole self. So that's the other thing. You know, we used to, we used to call it. We called it pts, which is the patient team itself. And the problem is that most of us try to set a hierarch is more important. Right. You'll have people say, well, team always first. And some will say, well, patients always come first. I, I just, I disagree wholeheartedly with any of those opinions. I think the problem is that you have to have all three in balance. Right. And even for yourself, when we do a lot of le leadership, I think for doctors, you need to think about your business life, your personal life and your family life. And if you don't have that. And I don't say balance because balance is a bad, bad word, but you have to nurture all three. And I get that at some point, sometimes business takes priority. Right? And then family, and then it kind of rotates. But if all three are not healthy, you're in for A world of hurt. And the problem is that you may say, well, you know, I'm gonna not take care of myself and I'll take care of my, my business and my family. But then yourself, your, Your personal health then will impact the other two. In other words, they all are interrelated, so. And yeah, I think that's the main thing.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:26]:
We had to get real with each other. You know, his office, I'd be like, all right, turn off the professional. We're on friend talk.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:33]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:33]:
And I'd have to tell him, you have to go home today. At the end of the day, I don't stay.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:38]:
Go, go.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:39]:
Like, we'd have to sometimes, you know, put each other in check with that kind of conversations. And as much as you try to keep it separate, we had to check each other to balance our lives out.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:19:52]:
Yeah. And I think as orthodontists, we're, we're performance driven. Right. We're. We are taught to perform. And I would say that what I learned is that orthodontics becomes kind of like a one person sport. You know, you do, you aim to achieve. The problem is that when you get to practice, you realize it's no longer all about you. And I know a lot of practices, a lot of friends that still practice that way, and it leads to negative things, you know, so the point is, I. I had like an executive coach and I was just like, oh, you know, this is great. This is grad. This is bad. I. I told him, I feel like I'm a Ferrari running a 12 cylinder engine on close to the red line all the time. And, and that's how it felt like to me, it's like I was just at that level just, just before the red line, you know?
Cassie Kellner [00:20:44]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:20:45]:
And so you tear into different things. And so it was exhausting. And the problem is that I just felt like if I just try a little harder, if I can optimize my time management, if I can like, just squeeze a little bit more time or be more efficient with this. But then I. What I learned, what I needed to, like, regroup was just like, I need to stop doing things. I need to stop making all the decisions in my practice, and I need to start designing an environment and I need to delegate appropriately. And that is a, that is a challenging, challenging thing. I would say for most doctors, it's really hard because that's your baby. I already told you my whole story. Like, yeah, I went through all the struggles, and so all of a sudden you think like, oh, well, I can do that better? You know, we're. We're high performance people. So it's like, no, no, no, no. Like, you know, then you make all the decisions. And so it was hard at first. That's the trust that you have to then say, okay, Brianna, let it go. I'm tapping out. Sometimes you do it just out of desperation. Like, at some point you just say, I can't do it. What I hope, hopefully any of the listeners would just not learn from my. Don't do it when you just can't handle it anymore. The goal, or at least where I live at this point, because I would say, you know, we're way more productive now in the practice and stuff. And I work a lot less. And I. I do a lot of other things. Not to say that I'm not still busy. I still, as a person, I. I'm that same, you know, I driven, always doing things, things like that. But it's just a different scope. And I have a team that handles a lot of stuff.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:20]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:22:21]:
And even though you think that you do things a lot better and that your decisions are right, my name's on the door and all that kind of stuff, I think it takes some humility to understand, like, some people can do it better. And sometimes it takes patience. Understanding that, you know, I make mistakes and they'll make mistakes, but understanding that just because they make a mistake doesn't mean that I take control. And that's the problem. I think most orthodontists like to take control. And what I learned is that you seek order and not control. But we're a control freaks. So. Yeah, the tough part.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:51]:
Yeah, I mean, listen, listen. The reality is that you guys work in millimeters. Let's get real, right? So, like, you're. The precision is. Is real and is serious, right? It's. It's how you're wired and, and that's a beautiful thing. But, you know, Brianna, how were you able to get him to trust you? And obviously this evolved over time, right?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:23:19]:
This is. This is the best. Because people think it's this great thing I did. And there's this great moment, pivotal moment. You know what it was? I grabbed him by the shoulders and I stood in front of him and I shook him and I said, you need to just trust me. Can you trust me? Say, trust me. He's like, I trust you, Brianna. I'm like, do you mean it? He's like, yes. And that. That's where everyone thinks. There's this guy. I'm like, he just had to relinquish the.
Cassie Kellner [00:23:53]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:23:54]:
The control over the practice. And listen, I made mistakes, of course. Trusted me with. With the practice.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:24:01]:
And by the way, trust does not mean that you absolutely let her do whatever or that you don't.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:05]:
Right.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:24:06]:
You know, Correct. And. And. And coach. But I think that's where.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:10]:
Well, it's pure.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:24:11]:
It's not like trust or whatever. It's just like working together. Right. And then also allowing her to empower her to do. Make the decisions. And you did pretty good.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:24:25]:
He also. And I think this is great that, you know, if people are listening, they should understand. He also, at that point, invested in my growth, and that's what's missing. I think a lot of in practices is that you want this spectacular leadership or management or whatever you want to call it, but you have to invest in it. So he would say, what do you want to do? And I say, I want to go to this, I want to go to that. I want to, you know, and he'd buy me books. And it. I get books sent to me. And I'm like, what is this? He goes, oh, I forgot I gave that to you to read. I'm like, okay, thanks. Like, it just constant, like, development of who I was. And I changed many times during the almost 10 years I was with him. But really that was the moment when I said, just trust me. And it. It got so. It got almost funny how much he trusted me where we were in an exam once, because I was also his TC.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:25:18]:
You did every job in the office?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:25:19]:
I did every job in the office as an orthodontist. We were in a TC exam. And he's a chatty guy, just like I am. And I was trying to get the doctor portion down to a certain time so I could keep the flow exam. Flow, which I lecture on a lot. And he would sit down and he would chat. And I'm like, oh, my goodness. We're at like, 10.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:42]:
You have, like, the clinical team outside, like, stalking him.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:25:45]:
Yes. It got so bad, we had to put, like, a shadow over the glass door hole so that the clinic couldn't look in. And like, Rana. And I'm like, I'm sorry, he's talking. So one day I decided, and this is how much this shows trust, too. He came in and I removed his chair, his clinical chair, so he couldn't sit down in the exam. And he looked over comfy. And he. Instead of getting comfy, he had to stand. He looked over at me and kind of just smirked. And I was like.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:16]:
Oh, well, you.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:26:17]:
Have to Go on and get in and get out. And, like, get out.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:26:21]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:26:21]:
Most doctors be like, where's my chair? Don't do that to me. You know, you took me by surprise. He kind of looked at me like, nice move.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:26:28]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:29]:
Yeah. I think, too, the beauty of this trust in the relationship that you guys have created was I, you know, that we're human and that we are going to make mistakes. And. And I think that's the hardest part of delegation, is that it's like, okay, I'm going to trust you with this piece. Not. Not everything, but I'm going to trust you with this piece. And then you. You potentially could make a mistake here. And then I'm going to go pump the brakes. I'm taking it all back because now I'm panicking and never mind. I'll just take it back and I'll do it myself. And then. Then the burnout begins. And then. Right. And. And I think a lot of times in any role when you don't, Brianna, that speaks a lot to you, too, is that, yes, he allowed you to grow and. But you were willing to receive. Receive it.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:27:26]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:27]:
And, you know, there are plenty of managers out there who are maybe not as open to going, like, you want me to read this. You want me to read this book? Like, I. I have a million and one other things going on right now, and now I have to read a book like, I think that's personal and professional growth. So I think you have to be also in a growth mindset, don't you, where the two of you were this kind of. Again, I said at the beginning, this dynamic duo where you're like, listen, you have my back and I have your back. And. And now we have this level of trust where not everyone wants to go to work and sit in a laundry room.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:28:12]:
But I think the other thing is also thinking that, you know, I think what Bri was good about, too, is sometimes office manages to become the doctor by proxy. You're like, you can't just take control either. So her role was to replicate herself, too. So it's not like control gets transferred from me to her. She then is also.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:33]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:28:33]:
Her task is also to grow other leaders in the practice, which is another reason, I would say, most of the time in my practice, those amazing people and team members, when they grow other leaders. So high performance is. Is a gift. It's amazing. But the best team members that you have are those that replicate themselves because they don't control the process. So that's one other thing that I would compliment Bri on. It's not like she's like, oh, now I'm boss, you know, and that's what happens in a lot of offices. So sometimes the doctor doesn't, you know, doesn't want to take the leadership role. And so the manager just becomes kind of that, the other boss, and that's the problem. So what you got to do is grow leadership within your team because then she would get burnt out, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to necessarily just pass on her and then all of a sudden she's making all the decisions. So she needs to then from that on, move it forward so it just trickles down the team. But just to speak from the investment side, okay, I have to fly my team all the way out from Hawaii. So if you know how to cost to fly into Hawaii, it's the same cost to fly out and you have to fly in. Right. So I have to sometimes fly, you know, 20, 30 team members to a meeting and I, I just, it's. I just have to shake my head when I see doctors. Orthodontics is not an individual sport. It's a team sport. And they go to these meetings and they don't take their team. They get all excited about stuff. And then there's no wonder that when you go back to the office, no one wants to implement anything because you're only investing in yourself. And that's, that's another thing. And it is, it's a cost, you know.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:18]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:30:19]:
For us, it's still a significant cost. Sure. To fly our team around to Sandy, you know, San Antonio or, you know, LA, or whatever meeting it is that we bring them to and. But it just pays huge returns. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:36]:
Yeah. I think that that's incredibly important to two pieces to what you just said. One is you're growing her and you're, you're empowering her to grow others. That is really, really, really important. And the other piece is. You're right, Sean. It is. You guys know, you, you go to all the meetings. When I see every single year just the orthodontist or he just brings like his, his manager or he just brings like his top performing TC. And it's very interesting to kind of watch that when you're like, well, where's everyone else? You know, I think it's really important because then you lose momentum. People that come back from these meetings are so pumped up to implement whatever it is that they're willing to, to learn and to change and to, to grow, and then it falls flat because others do not have the same excitement once you get back into that practice. So I hope that people took something from that coming from you because it's incredibly important and I don't think people are doing it enough.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:31:48]:
Yeah, Yeah. I absolutely agree.
Cassie Kellner [00:31:51]:
Bri.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:31:53]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:31:53]:
Let's talk about you saying. And the both of you saying, you know, it's okay to make mistakes and to learn from them. Because I think sometimes when you fall into the role that you were in, sometimes ego can get in the way. And that is very difficult to just self reflect and be like, whoops, we're gonna have to pivot here, or, hey, team, sorry. We thought that this was really going to work. And actually we're going to have to go this way because, you know, it doesn't look like that was the right system. And right, like, that's the evolution of small business is constantly having to be open to change and pivoting. You say that it's okay to make mistakes. What do you want to tell other leaders out there who maybe have a hard time doing that or admitting that to their team?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:32:55]:
It is hard to admit it because everyone looks for whose fault is it when you make a mistake? They're like, whose fault? Who did it? Whose idea was it? And so that becomes a big. A hard pill to swallow when you're a leader in the practice. So you hire somebody and they don't work out, and you were a cheerleader for this person and you're like, they're going to be great. This and that. And then they end up falling short or just not the right fit. And everyone looks at you like, well, you hired them. And I'm like, but how would I have learned from that mistake if I had not made it? That mistake made me better. So the next time I hire someone or the next person, I. I learned from that pain.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:33:44]:
Yeah. The problem is that it's the culture of the practice. So I think in most businesses, it's the cya. So the problem is a toxic culture is where everybody's trying to avoid making mistakes. That's where people impart blame. They're trying to find who's at fault. And mistakes have to be always a learning opportunity. I think the problem is that certain mistakes can be critical. Of course, something can be a fireable offense.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:13]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:34:13]:
But the problem is that there has to be a safety in the practice in a business where the team understands that mistakes are part of it as long as you're learning from it. Right. And I think you have to accept that as, as. As an opportunity for people to grow. And we all make mistakes. It's just the business owner just chalks it up. You know, oftentimes, you know, the clinical team will. Yeah, it's like 455 and they have to clip the distal end of a second molar, you know, and they'll call me because if. If they. If I make the mistake, then I'm the one to blame. Now, that's just one example in orthodontist.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:50]:
But, you know, perfect example.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:34:56]:
So if. If your team is afraid of making mistakes, my perspective is you have to think introspectively. Say, what am I doing that makes them fearful of that perspective? You have to pivot from that end. That the culture needs to be like, you know what, you apologize, of course, but you need to review with your boss or whatever, like, you know, what you're going to learn and shift from that. You know, and sometimes you can turn lemons into lemonade or whatever it is, but sometimes it's a costly thing. I mean, some mistakes can be expensive.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:35:27]:
We know. We've done them, We've done them.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:35:30]:
But you understand that you just. You move on from it and. And you grow and you. And you get better. But when you're fearful of mistakes, when you're trying to avoid making mistakes, that's when things can go wrong. Because then your team is kind of like walking on eggshells, trying to avoid stuff, trying to avoid being in. Getting into trouble. And it's a tough situation, I think.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:35:54]:
And I think that's what made Sean and I special, too, as well. As he always said to me, when I made the mistake, he would always say to me, well, what are we going to do? How are we going to fix this together? And it wasn't like you, you, you, you, or, you know, it wasn't like a. See what happened. It wasn't a finger pointer. It was more like, all right, what are we going to do? How do we fix this? How can we prevent this from happening? And so it made me have a safe space, because I do not. I did not like to be wrong.
Cassie Kellner [00:36:24]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:36:25]:
But when I am, I felt comfortable enough to go to him. And I think that shows him as a leader. And I think that's what I. A lot of practices are fearful of, is that the owner doctor is going to treat you a certain way because you made a mistake. But if it's a safe place to go and just say, hey, listen, I messed up, I mean, you know, I'm going to have to do A, B or C. And if the doctor supports you or the owner or whoever it is supports you and supports the decision, then you. That front shows to the team as well. Yeah, right. Like, that we're together. And it wasn't. Brianna has to face up to her mistake in front of everyone and, you know, confess. It was more like we were together, going, all right, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we pivot.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, Sean, when Brianna took you by the shoulders, quite literally shook you, what was going through your head in that moment of, okay, I'm. I am gonna let some of this go and delegate and, like, what happened on your end where you were like, okay, I'm. I'm. I'm willing to take this next step.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:37:35]:
Yeah. I think in my mind, sometimes I feel like, what's the worst that can happen? And once I purge that through my head, then I'm like, you know what? It's not like life is going to end, but if it does work out, it's a great opportunity. So. Yeah, I think, you know, trust is earned. It's not always.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:51]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:37:52]:
Just given. You do tend to trust people at the beginning, but at the same time, I think in business, you do earn that. And I could tell, obviously, when I. Because I hired her was just like, at some point you do say, well, if I hired her, I hired her for a reason. Right. She knows certain things, and you improve it. I mean, I honestly, I don't know. You're not the last hire, but I don't even hire people in my team anymore. I trust my team to the point that they bring in the team members that they bring in. I realized at some point that people talk it up to the doctor that they. They would fool me, you know, and so most of the time, I just meet someone like, oh, hi, this is the consistent. Yeah, I. I literally, unless it's an associate doctor or like a managerial role or something like that. Yeah. I don't. I'm not involved in. In the hiring of or even the firing process. It's very liberating, I have to tell you from that end. And you do have to understand that. Yeah, like I said, mistakes are made. I made bad hires, and Brianna did too, you know, so it's like, we all have. You realize that as a doctor, you're not infallible. Right. You still do make mistakes, and we're all human, but some people, like Breeze, really good at, you know, relationship and seeing through people. Plus, like, you know, if you. I didn't do certain things. He's like, did you even like, check on their Facebook and you know, like, you like, scope people out.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:26]:
Yeah, we're like part of the FBI.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:39:28]:
You know, seem nice. He seemed nice or whatever. So you do realize that. That we're great at Orthodontics. We do it. We're not getting everything. And that's, that's the challenge with high, high performance team members. Whether it's a doctor or, you know, TCs or managers and stuff like that. It sometimes is hard to understand that, hey, some people have a knack for things and that the team buys in much better when they're involved. Right. That's the other thing. When we make a mistake. I made mistakes where it's like, why the heck did you hire this person versus, like, hey, we hired this person. Like, you guys also made that decision, you know, and so sometimes I'm like, well, you guys hired her. What are you going to do about it? And that's actually very liberating, you know what I mean? Versus me trying to salvage something, a.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:40:17]:
Decision so misfiring people.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:40:20]:
No, no, no, no, no.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:22]:
No one does. Right? I, I just.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:40:24]:
To give you, Cassie, an idea of what this evolution looked like, when I started with him, we were eight. Within two years, we were 28. By the time I left at nine years, we were almost 50 employees, four doctors, four locations, and we were in a military state where the turnover was a little bit higher because we had a lot of military wives. So imagine I never not hired someone every month.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:52]:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:40:54]:
So it was a. It was definitely a lot of lessons.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:59]:
That's really interesting, actually, that this is a total pivot and we can cut it if you want, but when you're constantly hiring like that and you know that you're in a space that's constantly evolving with military. Did you shift your mindset then? Of like. Because a lot of people, you know, back in the day, you guys, you know, this people were in practices for 20, 30 years. They never left. Like, once they got there at 19, they didn't. They left when they retired at night, I think. You know, obviously in 2025, that is not the same language that we speak in practices. Was there a point, you know, Sean, you didn't grow up in that area. Like, was there a point where it just became the norm and was that overnight, like, did. Did you guys kind of accept that you. Will you constantly be evolving in your training systems and, and getting, getting new people in and things like that?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:41:57]:
I got used to it, to be honest with you. It's. It's not easy and yeah, it's still hard, but it is. It is how it is. Like, I tell the team sometimes they're like, oh, we thought she was going to be here forever. You know, people move on. There's lots of life changes. Sometimes they go through divorce and. Or they move or it's a career opportunity. We've had team members that become dentists. They become moms. You know, I'm happy when things are. When we get a stellar team member that moves on to, you know, being a physician or a dentist or something like that, or consultant. Yeah, you're. You're a prime example of this. She left me. Cassie. It. It's a. We live in a very transient state, so it's always the challenge. I, I will honestly feel like sometimes we're. Our team is stable and I hate to think this way, but again, that's like my mind, like, okay, when's something going to happen? And of course, like, last year we had like six pregnant. Like, most of them didn't come back. It constantly happens. So we've adapted a lot in the team. A, solid training systems. B, most practices don't run in systems. So systems development process. They're like, oh, Susie knows that if your FC is it and the FC leaves, then you're in terrible trouble. And Breanna helped me with this because it's terrible. Sometimes in my mind, I'm like, well, you're replaceable. You know, and it's like, don't. I'm like, I'm replaceable too. As a doctor, that's, that's. That. That is very liberating and empowering that when you leave or you take a vacation, you don't want to just like, oh, my God, I'm gonna go back to work. And it's terrible because then you don't really have systems in place.
Cassie Kellner [00:43:45]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:43:46]:
So when you have systems in place, people are replaceable. And I. And that sounds really bad. I know you like, she's cringing right here, probably because. But I, I meant it in the best, sincere term. In, In a. In a positive sense. It just means that, you know, you're there because of who you are.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:04]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:44:05]:
But your role is completely replaceable. Any assistant can be trained within a short period of time. Any financial coordinator, any manager. I mean, she knows this. Well, I mean, we run a management team and so we have systems in place that if, if one of them moves on, if moves away or, you know, takes another career, hopefully not, you know, we can try to build a career and opportunities.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:28]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:44:28]:
That I want Them to stay long term. Right. To have an opportunity to move forward, to have career advancement, continuing education, great benefits, all these other things in a life of purpose, you know, a work that has great purpose and meaning, but people move on. And so you can't be beholden to that. And so when Covid and all this craziness hit, I was just like, man, that's par for the course for us because I mean, it got worse. It was bad, of course, of course, really bad. But we, we have developed the way that we practice is, is very well systemized using technology and lots of other things that you can take anybody off the street in a, with the right attitude and, and then train them pretty quickly from that end. And so that's where it becomes more an attitude. And that's the other thing too. Right. Sometimes you get like incredible people that perform well, but they are toxic. They just shouldn't be in certain teams or be there. And the problem is that you're just afraid that if they leave, like, it's all going to fall apart. You know, we had a lot of team members like, well, once they leave, the practice is going to tank, you know, like, nope, it's like, yeah, you know, we doubled last year. Now it's just, you got to have good people around you and that's really hard because sometimes we keep people based on, oh, this is the best closer. The TC is amazing. But if she turns everybody away and everybody's like, quitting because she's toxic, she needs to go. I mean, it just. You don't want to keep people like that.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:00]:
No.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:46:01]:
And I think that's what I learned. Brie helped me to understand that in my personal life as well as professional life that sometimes you just. That I like, you know.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:09]:
Yes.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:46:10]:
Because your inner peace, your team's health, the culture and the things that you have, you know, take, take higher priority sometimes than just being the best at what you do.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:46:24]:
I tell everyone, you know, this is, I've said it for 10 years now. Anytime a team member leaves or comes in to your team, it's a brand new team. It is a brand new team every time you hire someone new or someone leaves the practice because you have, your dynamic has to change. And that is two things in there is being adaptable and two is long term success. So every doctor who's watching this, you have to treat everyone like they're going to be a long term success and not short term.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:59]:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:47:01]:
But you grow sometimes out of people. You know, some people, you adapt. When we were A smaller practice at some point, just, it's not for them. Right. They, they have too many control issues with their department or whatever it is, and sometimes you just, they do move on. So unfortunately there's, you know, there's some that exit out. But I think overall I'm happy with the team. You spend more time with them than you do with your family at times.
Cassie Kellner [00:47:28]:
Absolutely. You have to be happy.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:47:30]:
It's got that situation. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:47:32]:
And that's the thing. When you have this management team and you've created this beautiful leadership team, if, if you do not feel good about coming in with this team every single day, though, everyone else will feel it. So you have to be happy with who you have. And you make such a valid point, Sean, that I don't think people say out loud enough is if you create systems, then if people are not a fit in your practice, they are allowed to move on. And sometimes those people that you may replace could fit in and do really well somewhere else. That doesn't mean that they don't get to evolve somewhere else. That means that they just don't fit here for whatever reason. And, you know, I think when people get held in there, they get like pigeonholed into these, like, you know, all my financials and I don't have any backup here. I haven't created system, a system for it and my turnover is really high and I need you, you are not setting yourself up for success. So I don't think when you say something, Yes. I think people, like when they say you're, you're replaceable, like people are like red flag. That's not true. Like, this is business. And if you create systems in this way, people can succeed and maybe they will thrive somewhere else. Much better. Right? You, you, you hire for character, you train for skill, and that's really what it comes down to. I love this. I love it. I, and, and by the way, this is like full circle moment is what you said in the very beginning, right. Of like, you pay attention to these things, your personal, professional team, all the things. So, you know, I, I think it's a really, really beautiful thing and I, I think it's a beautiful thing with the two of you have created together. So let's talk about what you're doing now with Ortho Masterclass.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:49:55]:
Yeah. So I mean, Ortho Master class I developed, you helped me with that eight years ago. 2016, I think. 16.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:50:04]:
16 is when we started the idea.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:50:06]:
Well, we started the immersion course, so we did an in office course to see how we do things. Yeah. And then in 2018, we, we. We started onlines. Because, you know, when they come in, Brie's like, I have like, doctors calling me for support calls for like months after the course. Because the problem is that, you know how orthodontists are. We go in there and our brain starts like revving up and then this and this and that. And then we go back to the office and we're like, how do we implement it? Because, you know, implementation is actually the hardest part. You get a lot of information. Nine times out of 10, you don't do anything with it. So we say, well, how do we support that? And that's where we went into, you know, capturing videos going online. So that there was online resources and I was bringing in associates, I realized like, okay, I have one associate. I'm spending X amount of time already, certain amount of hours per week already coaching this associate, that kind of stuff. Once I had two, then it's 2x3 Associates, 3x. That's just. I could tell that it wasn't, that was not sustainable nor pleasant to think.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:51:18]:
We said, let's kill two birds with one stone.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:51:20]:
Yeah. So we just system my. All the systems and things went into videos. I literally would spend certain times every week posting content which would help my associates. And then we, we figured, you know, it can help other doctors as well. So there's clear clinical things, leadership things, and we have a mix of. Obviously, you know, Brianna does coaching and consulting, and I have my in office course a couple times a year. So usually October or late January, early February, they can meet my leadership team and everybody who does everything. I know a lot of people like to go to an office course and they ask like, well, are they going to sit there and watch me do stuff? I'm like, I'm a digital practice. I do stuff everywhere, wherever I am. And patients only come in usually for five, six, you know, seven visits. So it's not like if they come to my office, Even though like 80% of our practice is clear aligner treatment, they're going to see our braces patients, because those are the ones that come in. So it's not like anything too exciting. And I was like, you want to look over my shoulders on like repoing a bracket?
Cassie Kellner [00:52:23]:
Right.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:52:24]:
You know, so most of the stuff we captured in videos and then, yeah, I always like anybody who's an amazing team member. Right. Like, Harmony is one example. Our lead clinical left, she goes to Vegas and I'm like, what can I do? What can I do. And we brainstorm. We're like, okay, she's going to be my clincher coordinator. She'll save me tons of time by doing a lot of the digital workflow on the back end. And she's still with us. And so the same with Bri. I'm like, what can I do to keep her, you know, like, keep some attachment there. So we still working together on that end. So she. She'll do coaching, all that kind of stuff. I love to do things, but I just don't have time. And. Yeah, yeah, I don't think.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:04]:
And he's far.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:05]:
I'm far. And if I were to spend my time instead of practice doing that kind of things, I don't think people would want to pay me what I would want to get charged for that.
Cassie Kellner [00:53:16]:
Sure, sure.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:17]:
And honestly, a lot of the things I don't, they'll ask me. I'm like, I'm the last person you should ask. Like, okay, like, oh, how much do you for this? Like, your financial contracts?
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:29]:
I'm like, they would ask him, what's your (unknown word) I'm like, you don't know. Supposed to know that. He's a doctor. His. His job is to care for the patient, not the money.
Cassie Kellner [00:53:39]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:40]:
Doctors do what doctors should do. We know certain things that nobody else does. That's what you need to do. Everything else, you know, I stopped being the IT person. I stopped, you know, doing backups on the hard drives, cleaning 3D printers. What else was I doing? Like, everything else, it's just the orthodontics. I know.
Cassie Kellner [00:53:56]:
Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:53:57]:
So all those. All those kind of things. So, yeah, now we're more in a coaching role. I still love traveling and helping offices and whatever I can do to help impact them and help them from the doctor perspective. But Brianna can help a lot in team implementation.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:54:16]:
Orthomaster classes is kind of like micro learning too, as well. So it helps the doctors because we all know that the doctors are like goldfish, right? Like, they only contain so many things in one minute.
Cassie Kellner [00:54:31]:
Yeah. I mean, and just society as a whole, right? We're like, scrolling as quick as humanly possible. Like, this is a. What you're doing is a wonderful thing.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:54:44]:
Yeah, Yeah.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:54:45]:
I told my team. They're like, I'm like, can you make a decision? I keep changing. I was like, well, we're going to do like TED talks, like, short ones. And now it's like, can you do like tiktoks? Like, this is 60 seconds now. Like, I thought we were doing 15 minutes, 1015 minutes. And I'm like, no, no, it's got to be like 60 seconds now.
Cassie Kellner [00:55:02]:
Yeah, yeah, it's like a 90 second clip.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:55:07]:
So my role is typically like the doctors, you know, that sign up for ortho masterclass or go to the immersion courses with Sean. They go home and they like verbal vomit, all the implementation, but doesn't have someone to do it. So that's when they would call me and I'd come in and be like, okay, how can I help? Yeah, and I help them with that aspect from. From Orlando, because I tend to be a little closer than he is to them.
Cassie Kellner [00:55:34]:
Yeah, it's wonderful. Listen, I can't thank the two of you enough for doing this and being with me and spending almost an hour with me and speaking your truth and sharing your journey. Truly, thank you so much for joining me.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:55:49]:
Thank you, Cassie, you're wonderful. We love these podcasts. We love. I love that you're so real and this is real talk and people are getting to share real life experiences, growing pains, positive acknowledgments, everything. Cassie, you're doing a great thing with this podcast.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:56:06]:
Thank you so much.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:56:07]:
So proud of you. I've also seen you evolve, so this is like, you know, to. To know you professionally and personally. I'm very proud of you.
Dr. Sean Holliday & Brianna Fuentes [00:56:16]:
Yeah, kudos to you. I know, Brianna, I was like, oh, we should do a podcast. When you remember, I took a course on how to do that and I give it to you. It's. It's a lot. It's a lot of work and it's a whole different level of skill set, you know, to do that. So kudos to you. Yeah. Awesome job.
Cassie Kellner [00:56:34]:
Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team first. If today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a share, shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
