Cassie Kellner [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff. Honest combos, leadership lessons, and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:24]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I am your host, Cassie Kellner. I don't typically do this, but I wrote something for my guest today because she means so much to me. So here we go. Today's guest is more than a colleague. She's my consulting sister. She's my go to when my imposter syndrome hits. She's one of my dearest friends of 17 years. We started this journey side by side back in the day with Dr. Rick McLaughlin. She's the founder of Heartwise Collective. Please welcome the one and only Lindsay Quinn.
Lindsay Quinn [00:01:06]:
Oh, you're gonna start this off with tears. I'm gonna cry. I have chills.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:11]:
Really, Lindsay, I can't thank you enough for being here. I am so excited for this. It's ridiculous. I truly, truly. Okay, first of all, I had to ask Siri because I wanted to know, like, when was 2008? Because that's when we met, and she told me, 17 years. Isn't that wild?
Lindsay Quinn [00:01:32]:
It is insane. 17 years. And I have so many memories of the office that we worked with, Dr. McLaughlin's office, and just starting out and being neighbors in San Diego and carpooling to work when one of our cars was broken down or in the shop, and so young. So, so young. And it's just. Yeah, it's. It's really, really wild to think about that being 17 years ago. And also, we were so young then, and so much has happened. And, you know, one of the things that I was actually thinking about too, Cass, and I think about this all the time. And I don't know if I've ever said this, but, you know, I think at Dr. McLaughlin's office, we worked together for it was like maybe three years, four years, crossover. Because I think I was there for maybe, I don't know, three or four years before. You must have been three years. But I don't remember being at McLaughlin's office without you. Like, for me, you were there the whole time. Like, you are such a big piece of my memory of working at Dr. McLaughlin's office that, yeah, there was. I don't have a memory of you not being there. That's what a strong impact you had there.
Cassie Kellner [00:02:41]:
Oh, my gosh. Lindsay. Stop is. Am I going to cry today? Like, I feel. I'm just so excited for this. I hope people can feel the energy. Energy coming from this. And also, we don't have enough time to talk about all the things that. And the stories.
Lindsay Quinn [00:02:55]:
Oh, there's some stories we probably shouldn't share anyways.
Cassie Kellner [00:03:00]:
Okay. I always start my podcast with. And you're gonna love this. So you get to take this wherever you want to take it. Who is Lindsay Quinn?
Lindsay Quinn [00:03:10]:
Yeah, Cass. I. I don't even know how to answer that question. That's probably my least favorite question to ever answer.
Cassie Kellner [00:03:18]:
But.
Lindsay Quinn [00:03:18]:
Oh, my goodness, who am I? This version of me now, 2025. I'm a mom, right? First. First and foremost, I'm a mom to a three year old. And he's incredible and so fun and challenging and my biggest source of growth right now, always, like personal growth, but it's amazing. And I love being a mom. So that's, you know, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, a friend. Right? Like, oh my gosh, showing up for people as much as I can. And then an entrepreneur, which, you know, I think for any female entrepreneur who's also a mother. I know you and I talk about this all the time, but that, that dynamic is, is a really unique dynamic. And it's just who I am now. Right. I'll never not be a mom and an entrepreneur. And then, yeah, you know, for, for anybody who loves astrology, like, who I am, I'm a Pisces sun, Virgo moon, and Scorpio rising, which is also its own dynamic.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:23]:
Literally, you're just speaking another language. I know.
Lindsay Quinn [00:04:26]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:26]:
And I, but I, I eat this up. You know, I do. Like, I was like scrambling one day in my, my filing cabinet to find out my birth time for you so that you could read my birth chart.
Lindsay Quinn [00:04:40]:
I know, it's so interesting. Like, as I'm working with teams now that I have, you know, studied astrology for so long and taken a deep dive into it, when I'm working with teams now, I'm always like, oh, I wonder their sign is. I wonder what their rising sign is. I wonder what their moon sign is. And I know again, that's like foreign language to, to you and most everybody, but it's, you know, comparable to, to me. It's comparable to what you do with disc. Right. Like looking at personalities and how they all blend together and work together as a, as a team and knowing people's strengths that they were born With.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:13]:
Yeah, it's. It's so fascinating to me. I mean, right now, as you're recording this, Mercury's in retrograde and your Wi-Fi stopped working. And, you know, I.
Lindsay Quinn [00:05:24]:
Just. Be prepared. Right. Like, Mercury retrograde. Be prepared. There may be some communication breakdowns on your team. There may be a lot of people who are showing up late. Cars are breaking down, technology's breaking down. Like, flights are delayed. That's the kind of thing we'll get.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:40]:
Out of it, and then it's going to happen again.
Lindsay Quinn [00:05:42]:
Yeah, I know. I was telling my husband this morning, he was. He's. Sean's flying today, and he got a text message that his flight was delayed. And I was like, yeah, Mercury retrograde. And he's like, mercury's always in retrograde.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:53]:
I feel the same way, Sean. Yeah. Okay. I feel like we need to tell our story because as much as people that we collaboratively work with know that we're connected in so many different ways.
Lindsay Quinn [00:06:06]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:07]:
People sometimes don't realize like, how really connected. My eyes are watering. My makeup looks crazy right now because I. Amazing. I have already been, like, borderline crying. I'm laughing so hard. Sorry. All right. Okay. So I feel like we need to tell our story.
Lindsay Quinn [00:06:25]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:26]:
From 2008. 17 years ago.
Lindsay Quinn [00:06:29]:
2008. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:32]:
So you were already working in Dr. Rick McLaughlin's, Dr. Paul Upatham's practice in Ocean Beach, San Diego. And I got hired. And you were the scheduling coordinator at the time, Right. I got hired as a records tech first because that's where they started you. Because you don't. Okay. I was records, and my goal was to move into the clinic, but I came from General, so I needed.
Lindsay Quinn [00:07:02]:
Yeah, me too.
Cassie Kellner [00:07:02]:
Experience first. Right. To understand it.
Lindsay Quinn [00:07:06]:
And.
Cassie Kellner [00:07:08]:
We realized what? Week one, I don't even know, but I remember the day that we realized we lived on the same street.
Lindsay Quinn [00:07:17]:
Right. Just a couple houses down in all.
Cassie Kellner [00:07:22]:
Of San Diego, which is. I mean, population millions. Right. We lived on the same street. We worked in the same practice. We're a few years apart. And you were transplanted. Very. So you were a transplant from small town in Arizona. I'm a transplant from small town in Northern California. And our worlds collided, and it was, like, immediate, where we were, like, really good friends.
Lindsay Quinn [00:07:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's so wild, Cass, like, thinking about that and not to jump too far in the future, but I just. I feel like there's always been just like a. A string that connects us. Right. Or like a pull. There's, like, universe is just always like, no, you two just like need to kind of stay in the same neighborhood, like wherever that neighborhood is. And states apart, now we're on the other sides of the country. But like, still there's that, there's like just a string that always connects us which is like really, really, really cool.
Cassie Kellner [00:08:22]:
It's so cool. And we were young. I mean, I was like 23. Right? How. I don't know how old I am. Yeah, 23.
Lindsay Quinn [00:08:30]:
Yeah. I was probably 21.
Cassie Kellner [00:08:33]:
Right. Like, what in the world. That's wild to me. I'm 40 for God's sakes. Like, it just.
Lindsay Quinn [00:08:41]:
Yeah. You know, I don't know what you. We don't really talked about the, the general office that you were at previously, but I know you came from a small town and I was in a general practice for four years before I moved to San Diego and started at McLaughlin's office. But like really, really, really different culture in the general practice to the ortho practice that I, that Dr. McLaughlin's office, small town, you know, is very like laid back. Like just, yeah, really laid back. I don't want to say we didn't have high standards, but going to Dr. McLaughlin's office, I was intimidated because the standards there are so high. Everybody had such integrity. There was systems for everything. And at, at first I was intimidated by that. Like being in that culture. Dr. McLaughlin, being who he is, was like, you know, this completely humble. I didn't realize until maybe a year after being there the presence that he had in the orthodontic community. I did not know he was a world renowned orthodontist. I did not know that he had his own bracket prescription because he's so humble. He didn't want his patients knowing that and he didn't talk about it. We weren't supposed to tell his patients that he was traveling the world to train orthodontists in Japan. Right? But, but yeah, I was intimidated at first. And then as the years went on, I went. I became very appreciative of the standards that that practice had. And I, I essentially compare all other practices to that. I worked in another practice briefly after McLaughlin's when I moved back to Arizona. And that was really eye opening for me because it was like, whoa. Like orthodontist practices around the world, around the country do not operate like Dr. McLaughlin's. And that's where I think my first like realization of potential consulting or, or you know, helping other orthodontic practices even came to light. Like, wow. I, I was so fortunate to work with such an amazing practice and learn such amazing systems from such amazing doctors and ladies that had been there for so long. The women there were incredible that now I see, like, what is possible and what. When you have high standards, like, what's possible. Yeah, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:05]:
And like, the level of respect that I had for leadership and those doctors and the people that were training me at such a young age and, you know, and being so incredibly responsible to. At such a young and taking my career in this practice and my position in this practice so serious and at such a. We were so young, you know, to. To look back and go. But, like, the standard was high, and if you wanted to be here and they didn't treat it like that, by the way. Like, it wasn't like, oh, you're so lucky to be here. It was like, welcome to the team. And you're. And then you realize on your own, oh, I am very lucky to be here, you know?
Lindsay Quinn [00:11:50]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:50]:
I had no clue.
Lindsay Quinn [00:11:52]:
And I think, too, Cass, like, I know this, actually Teresa, that name just popped in my head, but yes. So we both went through a recruiter when we moved to San Diego. Just so happened we both reached out to the same recruiter. Her name was Teresa. I think it's all dental staffing. No idea why I remember that. But Teresa with all dental staffing, she is the one that said, you need to go interview at this practice. And I was like, yeah, but that's ortho. I'm a general girl. And she was like, no, you need to interview here. And so I did and was offered the position. And she said, you have to take this position. This is the practice you want to be at. And I just was like, okay, I trust you. I'll go there.
Cassie Kellner [00:12:34]:
Right.
Lindsay Quinn [00:12:35]:
But it wasn't. It wasn't for her. I probably would have ended up at just another drama practice. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:12:40]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:12:40]:
And I know you work with same recruiter.
Cassie Kellner [00:12:43]:
Yeah. So she came, she found me on Craigslist and then pushed me through. It was like a really a different experience, but it was, you know, the same. And. And. And I got hired with another assistant. Like, they needed two at the time. And that assistant was let go because she just couldn't cut it with the systems and how fast paced it was and that alone at such a young age. I had never been fired before. Right. Like, the thought was so jarring that I was like, oh, I better figure I better up my game because. And I remember them calling me in and saying, by the way, you're not a package deal. You didn't even know this girl. This is. This doesn't have anything to do with you. But I was like, still, like, you guys are just letting people go because they can't cut it in X amount of time. Like, it was like, yeah, no, it's not going to work. And I was like, okay. And, you know, there's, again, so many standards of standards. What your scrubs should look like, what your hair should look like, what, you know.
Lindsay Quinn [00:13:42]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:43]:
Oh, gosh, the nail polish.
Lindsay Quinn [00:13:44]:
Yeah. How you interact with patients either was like, it was like, always eyes on you and not in a bad way. Right. Like, you know, we have high standards and integrity and expectations for the team members here, but the, you know, there was. There was really high expectations about how you communicate with patients. And I really appreciated that because that's something that I'm really big on. And even then, you know, is like, how we interact with our. Our patients and just people. Right. In general, like, just being a kind person who wants to help was just so important to be a team member and everybody. I mean, the core team members over there that, you know, lasted for years, some are still there. Like, all of them were amazing, and I just, I always appreciated them. I never had negative thoughts or feelings about any one of them. It was all just appreciation.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:35]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:14:36]:
And I still, I just remember that. And like I said, I. I still compare in my consulting. Right. Like, I still compare so many practices to that standard of team members, of systems, of integrity, of patient care. Like, I know it's possible, and, you know, it's possible.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:55]:
Yeah. We lived it. That's the difference. We're not, you know, we lived it, and then we are applying it to real life. And so I think that that that's really helpful in the work that we do, you know, is that we lived it. And the standard was so high, and I'm so appreciative at such a young age, I had no idea. But now, looking back at where I am currently in life, I'm like, thank God I started here.
Lindsay Quinn [00:15:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. I will always have so much gratitude, and it just feels like such a blessing to have had that opportunity and that experience. And there's so many things like getting to know you and, you know, that friendship.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:36]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:15:37]:
Planting its seed. Yeah, totally.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:40]:
So I, I.
Lindsay Quinn [00:15:42]:
What I said that was our first experience together.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:45]:
I know. Timeline. Okay, wait. I need to tell everyone, so. And I don't think. I. I don't know if I do this in front of people, but I. When I say when I call you Linda.
Lindsay Quinn [00:15:58]:
Oh, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:02]:
So Lindsay and I have to say this, Lindsay and I. So they always had someone at Dr. McLaughlin and up with them's office. They had someone on phones during lunch, and to give the scheduling coordinators a break, some clinical team members would sometimes take over those phones, you know, so and so on. So we had like a rotating schedule. Right. So I would do a lot of, you know, work up front. I would help up front if you, you were a TC lens, like I would sit in your seat and take over and blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of cross training happening, right?
Lindsay Quinn [00:16:33]:
A lot of cross training. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:35]:
Right. When we answered the, When I answered the phone because my name is Cassie, everyone thinks my name is Cathy. Right? C A T H Y. When you answer the phone, your name is Lindsay. Everyone thought your name was Linda. And so for years we would call each other Linda and Cathy. And we. It's so it's.
Lindsay Quinn [00:16:57]:
I usually sort it to Cath though.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:00]:
It was Cath. Cath. Cath and Linda. And still sometimes when you call me, I'm like, hey, Linda. And we don't even laugh because it's just so. It's like, hey. And then we just. Anyway, Cathy and Linda, 17 years later have been on a journey. I mean, from 17 years, from our early times at McLaughlin, we, I then moved to the East Coast. You do. I mean, you tell your story. You went on a, A wellness journey of. Oh my gosh, Lynn.
Lindsay Quinn [00:17:39]:
So. And remember though, like, just take a step back too. Do you remember? Of course you remember this, but you went to the east coast and you were working there at Baker's practice. And I remember you reaching out and being like, hey, you know, like, I think that, like, we need you to come out here to this practice so that we can help train the. I think it was the financial coordinator and the treatment coordinator, or she was a combo financial coordinator, treatment coordinator. And I remember like going to Dr. Upatham and Dr. McLaughlin and Mary and asking for permission and their blessing to go and do that. And like they were super supportive and they said, yes, go ahead. But that was like really the first mini consulting that that ever happened. Right? And we just.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:22]:
Oh my gosh. You took a red eye. I have a photo.
Lindsay Quinn [00:18:26]:
I don't.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:27]:
You took a red eye out and you landed and you had a Red Bull. You would never drink a Red Bull.
Lindsay Quinn [00:18:32]:
Red Bull ever.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:34]:
That's how young we were. You, you had like a Red Bull. And I drove my. I don't know what year it was. 2005 Ford Focus.
Lindsay Quinn [00:18:43]:
And I picked you. I know.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:48]:
And I picked you up from the airport on your red eye. And I have a photo. We took a selfie from, like, a real grainy phone. It must have been the first iPhone that came out that I had, and I still have it. And you're holding your red Bull up, and we're in the car driving. I need to post this. And we're.
Lindsay Quinn [00:19:09]:
And.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:10]:
And you came in and you did magical things for this practice, and you left, and that was, like, a taste of. And I'd already had a taste in this practice of. We did a full gut renovation. We changed systems. Like, it was so incredible. And fast forward.
Lindsay Quinn [00:19:33]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:33]:
Leave McLaughlin and Upatham's practice.
Lindsay Quinn [00:19:37]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:38]:
Go where?
Lindsay Quinn [00:19:39]:
Yeah. So I think I was. I went to the seas. Yeah. That was 20. I think it was. I think I was 25. And, you know, I had worked in dentistry and orthotics my whole working career up until then. So, I mean, I started when I was 16. My mom was a dental assistant, and I would go over to the office and do sterilization. I helped them go digital. Anyways, so, yeah, I was like, I want to try something new. Like, I don't have kids. I'm not married. I just. I. I just want to, like, have some freedom here. And so I ended up, over the next four, five years, really, working as a wellness instructor on a small cruise company called Uncruise, where I did massage and led yoga classes every morning and took people out on adventures. They were like, 35 to 85 passenger boat. So you were kind of a jack of all trades on the boats, you know, whether you were, like, being an adventure guide or wellness instructor. But yeah, I spent my. My summers in Alaska and my winters in Hawaii and ended up meeting Sean, my husband. So that also was, like, a very good decision.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:50]:
And for anybody out there that watches below deck. Yeah, I'm like, you know, Lindsay, you know, I'm a reality TV junkie. It's, like, actually embarrassing. Bravo. Bravo is like, you know, on speed dial. But anyway, I just think below deck, like, of your.
Lindsay Quinn [00:21:08]:
Honestly, like, I've only seen bits and pieces because Sean watches it every once in a while, like, when there's nothing on. But, yeah, I mean, there's, like, it's. It's obviously dramatized below deck. But, like, the things that happen, like, really do happen on the boats too. Like, there's been lots of relationships and, you know, drama. Drama. Yeah. It's always the chef.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:30]:
So entertaining. Yes. The chefs are so fiery.
Lindsay Quinn [00:21:33]:
They are so fiery. That's. That's true. I don't know what it is about the chefs that they are.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:39]:
And your husband was the captain, so like Lynn's, I mean, still the captain, but like, oh my God, I would have loved to see that just out play on below.
Lindsay Quinn [00:21:51]:
Yeah, I should have, I should have shared more with you. Yeah. So, yeah, that was a fun time. And you know, it was amazing. Like, I loved it. I'm so grateful I did that. I saw a lot of really beautiful things, like once swimming with humpback whales and you know, like orcas breaching under rainbows. Like, not kidding, like, that actually happens, you know, like so many incredible things. And it was a really, you know, it was actually like a very healing time in my life just to be in nature and coming back to yourself and, and I don't know, it was kind of like being at summer camp all the time. And then it just got to a place where I was like, okay, you know, like, this been amazing. And I don't feel like I'm growing anymore. And I'm somebody who, if I'm not growing, at least every couple years, right, If I'm not doing something new, if I'm not being challenged, I get bored. I mean, I'm always, always pushing myself, always looking for what's next. How can I grow? What, what can I introduce in my life or what needs work? And yeah, I got to the boats where I was like, on the flagship vessel, I was the lead instructor and I was like, this is no longer inspiring to me. And when things aren't inspiring, I know it's time for something new. And so, yeah, that's when I got off of the boat and I was kind of like thinking about what do I want to do next? And exploring that piece. And I knew I didn't want to go back into working in an orthodontic practice or a dental practice. And so I started by. I just put together like a really nice letter and went around to the. Obviously living in Gig Harbor at the time. I went around to like local dentist office and orthodontic offices, letting them know, like, I was available for help as needed, but I wasn't looking for a full time piece. And so I was helping out, like local offices here and there. And then I reached out to you and I was like, hey, Cassie, just so you know, I'm off the boats and I'm not really sure what's next, but you know, just, just letting you know if you hear of anything cool. And you were like, yeah. You're like, no, no, you have to actually come be a consultant. You were working with Hummingbird and Karen Moad and Tracy Moad. And I. I remember always being really inspired with you doing that. Like, wow, Cass, like, that is so amazing. Like, you always, you know, you put yourself in uncomfortable situations that also cause you to grow. I know. Also cause you to grow. And I just thought, like, that's so cool that Cassie doing that. And really inspiring, really inspiring. And so when you said that, I was like, oh, gosh, Cass, like, I don't know if I can do that. And you're like, no, no, you would be perfect. And I really, I also, like, really, really, really appreciate you being a stand for my potential. Right. Like, just seeing and believing in me, like, even when it's so hard to believe in yourself, you know, I definitely struggle with that. But having. Having women around you that pull you forward in your potential, there's nothing more powerful than that. There's nothing more meaningful than that. You were that for me. Karen Moed has been that for me. Tracy Moad has been that for me. That's just. You all have believed in me when I was like, I don't know why, I don't know what you see in this, but I'll do it because you believe in me and I'm not going to let you down. Is how I felt in the, you know, early stages for sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:25]:
And with Hummingbird, there was. I mean, we've never talked about this publicly. There was also another standard lens, right? I know.
Lindsay Quinn [00:25:35]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:35]:
And like, really wild, actually. I'm just like, processing right. Right now. Like there were these standards, right? There was a standard with. Where we were with McLaughlin, and then we had this parallel kind of standard in a totally different space. And thank God for that.
Lindsay Quinn [00:25:55]:
I know it's like, you know that some diamonds are created under pressure, right? I think if. If you are somebody who arrives.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:03]:
That is so good. Say it again. Say it again. Diamonds.
Lindsay Quinn [00:26:08]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:09]:
Under pressure, Right.
Lindsay Quinn [00:26:11]:
And it's. Not everybody wants to be a diamond. Right? Some people, like, they're. They are not. And there's nothing wrong with that, right? Not everybody wants to have that kind of growth. Not everybody wants to be under pressure to. To develop. And I don't mean that it sounds negative when I say that. When not everybody wants to, like. But there's. That's just. That's maybe just not the. The path that they're on in this life. Right? They're just not on that path. And some people are completely happy having, you know, not that they don't have challenges or put themselves in challenging situations, but maybe not in a professional way. Whereas I think you and I, we definitely are. Like, we thrive when there's high standards. We thrive when there's somewhere to go. We thrive when we're trying to achieve something. It was, you know, like, my triathlon days, too. Like, if I'm not, it's. I've got to put myself in challenging situations. I've got to put myself in a situation where there is growth potential or I'm just not satisfied. And, yeah, I don't know, maybe there's something more wrong with that than the other way around.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:17]:
Same. Same. I'm like, should we actually talk. Should I talk to my therapist about this and unpack this a little more now that you're saying this? Because it's so true, you know, I have to feel like I have to feel fulfilled in a way that I know I am constantly growing. And while imposter syndrome, as I said from the minute we started this podcast, is real. Yeah, I had imposter syndrome. At Dr. McLaughlin and Upatham's office when I'm doing an indirect bonding and there are seven doctors surrounding me, and I'm, like, praying, like, please, God, let all these brackets stay on when I peel this thing off. Because they don't. I'm. They're going to be like, oh, so it doesn't work. You know, and then the pressure and the feeling of being the best damn consultant I can possibly be. Yeah. And, you know, and feeling that and. And the, The. The Hummingbird Associates standard that I felt from day one, I'm so grateful for. Yeah, I'm so grateful for.
Lindsay Quinn [00:28:23]:
Yeah. Yeah, me too. I mean, not only for the. The high standards and integrity, but also just the. The. The wisdom and genius that. That Karen has. And, you know, she's just. She's been such a pioneer in the orthodontic consulting world and is still at her age. Right. She is still forging and. And creating new systems and developing new things with practices. Like, she's always. She's always cutting edge in things and listening to her doctors and her clients and her friends is what they are, that the relationships that she's. She builds with people, too, is. Is really inspiring. So, yeah, I mean, it's the same. Like, I'm just so grateful for the experiences that we've had in the people that we've gotten to know and look up to and learn from, because I can't imagine. I mean, there's no way I would be going out and Doing anything without the, the background and the people that I've known and gotten to learn from and be a part of.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:28]:
Yeah. I would say to people listening right now that are thinking of, like, shifting in their career, no matter what career it is, and, and what that looks like is like, take it all in, like, and to remember that you are worthy of, of the things that you want to do. And imposter syndrome is real and overthinking is real.
Lindsay Quinn [00:29:52]:
And you'll never be ready. No.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:54]:
It's like having a child. You're never ready.
Lindsay Quinn [00:29:57]:
Be ready. Right. Like, the more that's. I think one of my biggest hurdles is I, I just, you know, my Virgo moon wants everything to be perfect before I do anything, before I take the step. And I've learned, like, okay, hey, like, nothing's ever going to be perfect. You're never going to be. You're never going to feel totally ready. You just have to take the steps. And sometimes it's figuring it out as you go and saying, oh, you know what, actually, I don't want to do that or I'm gonna offer this instead or, you know, just pivoting. And I know you did that big time when you.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:27]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:30:27]:
Started Everbloom.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, we had, we. We both kind of in our own ways had a massive pivot outside of that consulting group. And now, you know, you have heart wise collective. I have Everbloom. And we are the creative masterminds behind our own, you know, consulting and coaching companies. And here we are again. Linds, like on these parallel. Like. What?
Lindsay Quinn [00:30:58]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:59]:
I can't even explain this. I mean, I'm so grateful you're in my life and that you have been on this path with me. I, I can't even begin to tell you. I. I want shout from the rooftops. I tell everyone I speak with how much I adore you. And, and I, I'm so happy to see you in this space and to have been able to grow along with you in the. What the hell are we doing Stages. And, and the. Oh, we. We nailed it. We nailed it. Stages. You know, and all, all of it. The, the motherhood situations, the, you know, speaking on stages. Oh. Lynn's Lindsay speaking engagements, the lectures.
Lindsay Quinn [00:31:50]:
Oh, I cannot imagine. Study. I mean, the study clubs. I can't imagine not having you as like a big sister mentor through the, the early days, you know, the first few years of all of that. Because I just don't know who I would have turned to that I could just speak to on such a, you know, Friend level, but also with somebody who gets it because they've walked in those shoes.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:15]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:32:16]:
Before me, right? Like, you had done all that a year, two years before me, and you were like, oh, no, I know. I know what that's, like, that feeling. And I'm like, okay, like. And do it anyways, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:27]:
But that was because I was probably crying two years before that about whatever it is that I had to do. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I was there and it was. Was awful, and it's going to be really beautiful when it's done. So you got this, you know. You know, to be able to pivot in this career with you and now do what we're doing now and be able to call each other and have these new ideas in the. The way that we are working in this space, you know, kind of collectively and collaboratively with clients, and it's just a really, really, really, really cool space to be in.
Lindsay Quinn [00:33:05]:
Yeah, I love it, too. I love it, too. I love that this is, you know, where things are at now, where we each, you know, like, have our own separate. Our own separate babies. Right. Our business babies. And yet. And yet we still get to collaborate. Right. There's no. There's no, like, a competition type of energy or vibe. It's all. It's very, very collaborative. And, like, you know what your zone of genius is? I know what mine is. They're not the same. And we can bring that together with clients and say, like, hey, I actually think you really need Cassie for this piece. She's the one that you're gonna want and vice versa. Right. Which is. Yeah. Is amazing. And, yeah, there's just so much synergy there. Like, there always has been.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:45]:
Yeah. We both do a lot of culture building work. Should we. I feel like people need to hear some of these things. And one of I think the big pieces that I want to discuss with you to give people perspective on is advice that we would give leaders when they do not. When they keep team members too long. They know that the team member is not a good fit. The team member knows they're not a good fit. Everyone knows that they're not a good fit. Yeah. And they're too afraid to just, quote, unquote, cut the cord. We see it often. And I think a lot of this has to do with now I have to find another person to fill these shoes. And that's very stressful in this industry with the level of turnover that we have and finding the right people and all the things what would you say to people who are not cutting that cord quickly enough?
Lindsay Quinn [00:34:49]:
Well, I think, you know, I think people struggle with knowing when to cut the cord first of all because they don't necessarily have any metrics to use that make it clear or obvious that hey, it's time to cut the board. Right. And so, you know, I think there's a, there's a leadership framework called gapology and I'm sure there's other versions of it. But essentially in that leadership framework it's, it's looking at the gaps. Right. And then as a leadership, how are we filling these gaps? And if we've done our part to fill these gaps gaps, then it, then we take the account about accountability and look at the, the team member. So the different gaps are. First, is, is looking at, is this a knowledge gap? Right. Have we done our part to train and coach this person sufficiently and did we hire the right person for this role? Right. Because just because somebody has a background in analyzing data, for example. Right. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to translate to being a COO of your practice. Right. That there's a huge knowledge gap and that's going to take a ton of energy to pour into this person and may be worth it if they're closing the gap in the other pieces that I'll mention here, but you know, those, that's what we need to look at first. Is this a knowledge gap? Have we, we put systems in place to coach and train this person and give them everything we can to have them be successful? If the answer is yes, then we're going to look at in an importance gap. Right. So importance gap. Things that fall in that gap would be have we communicated to this person the things that are important in their role? Do they know how to prioritize the things that are important? So you know, for example, maybe we have a financial coordinator who feels that it's more important to make sure that they're answering the phones to support their team members than it is to post payments and follow up with past due insurance. That's an important gap that if that hasn't been communicated, that's on us. Right. So essentially your go to should be this is a leadership accountability. Right? We as leaders need to take accountability first. Once we've moved to the importance gap, then we go to the action gap and we start looking at. This is more of a team member accountability now. Right. Their action. We've done the training, we've prioritized and communicated everything that's important about their job to them. Are they taking the action now based on everything we've taught them and coached them on? And if they're not taking the action, then that's looking at, okay, now I think it's time to cut the cord.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:47]:
Right?
Lindsay Quinn [00:37:47]:
It's also in the importance or in the action gap. We're looking at culture. Are they a culture fit? And have we built the culture right? And this is also cast where, like, we've talked so much about standards. This is where standards live. Like, do we have really high standards? And. And being coming from a practice that had really high standards, working with the consulting company that have had really high standards, if somebody is not living up to the potential of your standards, if they're not closing those gaps, it's time to cut the cord. Otherwise, you are lowering your standards by keeping the people right. It tells the rest of your team that, like, it's excusable and acceptable to have this either. Like, poor behavior, poor attitude, lack of training. Right. Those. Those things all become really clear that it's time to cut the cord. And I'll also say, too, Cass, I know you know this, but, you know, one of the cool things about consulting is that you get to work with so many different practices and you get to see so many different personalities and team dynamics. And it has become very clear to me within a couple of sessions of working with the team, like, whether somebody is a good fit or not either. You know, most. A lot of times it's pretty obvious when it's a culture fit. But also in working with them, going through the different coaching and training pieces, like, if they're not grasping things, like, it's pretty clear early on that this isn't going to be. They're either they need to be moved to a different role or they need to be removed from the team. But I know when you're on a practice level, a leader, you don't get to. To see that, right? Like, you're kind of in your bubble and it's hard to know when to cut it. But, you know, the, the advice that I have for people listening around, when do we cut the cord? Is like, honestly, when, you know, you know, I mean, there's. I can't think of a time when we knew it was time for somebody to be cut from the team and regretted it. It's always like a huge oh, thank God. Right? Like, that was a great decision. And just like, like laws of the universe, right? When we let go of something that's no longer serving us, something better does show Up. And I also think by having a practice that has really high standards of integrity, you attract people that have high standards and integrity and you will have people that apply for your practice because you're the practice that people want to work for. Yeah, you know, it's, it's that, that I've just seen it time and time again to be, to be true.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:29]:
Yeah. And you know, I will say this be just the things that you're talking about in all of these gaps right. In, in an individual is it's also very, very, very difficult to come back from a toxic culture. Once you get to the toxicity where if you've allowed these behaviors or this attitude or whatever it is right to continue and then your team rises to wherever that person is. The next thing you know, people are like, well why do I have enough to do it this way when these three individuals never get to, they don't come on time. And why, why would I come on time? Or they're not running reports or doing what they need to do on a non patient day. Why would I do that? Right. And so it, it then creates this culture of pointing fingers, no communication, no collaboration. And it gets messy very, very quickly. And so I would say to the getting out of that toxic culture is so hard and you may just have one individual, maybe it's not the entire team where you're like, hey, yeah, I'm, you know, this is not clearly not working. But then the fear sets in. Lynn's. You feel, I know you work with financials and new patients and you do all the things like if somebody has a hold on their financials and they're like, but you're also really toxic.
Lindsay Quinn [00:41:57]:
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's, I mean it's, it's so true. I think I, I mean obviously I come from a background of new patient systems, TC and financials, but I will say, you know, yeah, I hear it all the time where doctors and leadership teams are terrified to let go of their TC because they feel like they can't be replaced even if they don't have a great conversion. Right. Maybe they have a 60% conversion. Like we're just scared to let them go because they know the doctor and the treatment that they're going to present and financial coordinator is like big time for whatever reason. Like that position, nobody knows how to do financials, how to submit to insurance other than the financial coordinator, slash insurance coordinator. And we're terrified of that. Right. Like this person's going to leave or that they're going to have to Be let go and everything's going to fall apart. And those are big deals, right? That's production and that's collections between the TC and the financials. So yes, a big deal. And also like why it's so important to have all of your systems and knowledge in a central database so that if a person leaves, maybe they win the lottery. Right. Maybe it's nothing bad. They win the lottery and they never come back. We need to have, we need to have all of our systems and knowledge documented so that we don't feel terrified that these people are going to leave and we'll have no one and cross training. Right. Like, yep. There should be at least one other person that could step in to, to take over that role if needed. And it also helps our team members know like they could take a vacation and not feel like the world's going to fall apart while they're gone.
Cassie Kellner [00:43:35]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think it, all of those things are really important. And I would say when you finally release an individual that is no longer a fit for whatever reason in your practice and you're too terrified because you may feel short staffed or no one knows how to do things the way that they do, but they're still not a good fit. It's magical. What happens to your team when everyone rises to the rally?
Lindsay Quinn [00:44:05]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:06]:
Oh, it's like nothing you've ever seen. All of a sudden. I mean I'll use it from a clinical perspective. You lose a clinical assist and you're like, how are we ever going to survive? We have all these chairs and this person did all these things and, and that person is gone. And then all of a sudden it's like, we're done early.
Lindsay Quinn [00:44:24]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:25]:
How, how did we do that?
Lindsay Quinn [00:44:26]:
The energy was amazing. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:29]:
It shifts everything. So you know, and if you do.
Lindsay Quinn [00:44:33]:
Have, you know, if you have that toxic person on your team that's just like pulling the energy down when they are released from the team, the team like celebrates that. Right. Because everyone knows they're toxic person and if they don't know it, they sense it and it is actually, the energy is actually affecting them like 100 and so when that's released it's everything just lifts. Right. And they, they're, they're celebrating whether like they're showing it or not, like they're internally celebrating that, that like they, there's no longer this toxicity, this cancer on the team. And you know, I also say like it also serves the person that you're releasing to that you're letting go. Because if they're not. If, you know they're not a good. And you're not a good fit in your practice or on your team, that just means, like, they're a much better fit somewhere else. And by you, like, cutting that cord, letting them go, they get to go, like, explore a better option for them and hopefully rise into their potential too.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:35]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:45:35]:
It doesn't serve anyone to keep them on the team if, if, you know, they're not a good fit.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:41]:
Right. And they can thrive somewhere else and be much happier. You know, sometimes people are too afraid to fly, and so sometimes we kind of have to give the push and then they get to fly and thrive somewhere else. This team just was not a good fit for them.
Lindsay Quinn [00:45:57]:
Yeah. Or, you know, maybe they're not going to thrive right away. They have some, Some. Right. Maybe they're going to hit rock bottom. I don't know, know, like, I hope not, but sometimes, yes, that's what happens. But you have to just trust that, you know, this is, this is their journey and there's lessons for them to learn and, and they'll end up somewhere else, hopefully, that, that they can thrive at. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:21]:
Yeah. Linds, I have a last question for you. And this has gone by way too quickly.
Lindsay Quinn [00:46:28]:
I know.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:29]:
And this one is, is. Is going to come out of nowhere. But just as you're talking through this, this. What is one crazy lesson that you have learned in the past 20 plus years that you have been in this industry? You were a team member, you shifted. You are consultant. You now own your own consulting company that's thriving like crazy. What. What's one of the biggest lessons that you've learned?
Lindsay Quinn [00:47:06]:
Oh, Cass, gosh, so many. But what's, what's coming to my mind right now is just self trust. You know, it's. It's self trust and it's. And it's not something I've mastered. Right. But it's something that I, I have grown a lot in and continue to grow in and just trusting myself and following. Following what lights me up and carving my own path and not trying to be anybody else, not comparing myself to anybody else. Trusting that when, when I know somebody is not a good fit on a team, that I can speak up now confidently and have a conversation with the doctor and look at the. The knowledge gaps, the importance gaps, the action gaps, and identify, you know, with them, at least share with them my perspective on what I'm seeing and trust myself. But yeah, Cass, self trust is probably a forever, forever lesson. But just trusting, trusting my intuition, trusting my path, trusting My timeline too. Right?
Cassie Kellner [00:48:12]:
Yeah.
Lindsay Quinn [00:48:14]:
You know, I think just as a working mom, it's cruise is three. And some days I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I just had five days a week, eight hours, ten hours a day to work on my business. And I have to take a step back and think like, no, your son is three. These are the most important days for you to be with him. I will definitely regret not being there with him, playing with him, adventuring with him, exploring with him. If, if I were to just dedicate everything to the business. Right. So I don't know, I guess that's a separate lesson that has nothing to do with trust. But it's the.
Cassie Kellner [00:48:54]:
Yeah, it's the balance.
Lindsay Quinn [00:48:56]:
It's my timeline is what I mean. It's. It's trusting my timeline that, hey, in a couple years from now, he's going to be in kindergarten and he is going to be gone five days a week. And at that time, like, yeah, maybe, maybe I can expand my team beyond three team members and, you know, be on the road more. Or not. Right. But yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:49:15]:
Yeah. I don't know if you listen to this episode, it just recently came out. Dr. Maggie Law talks about that and how her kids are little. She has three little kids. She's amazing. And how she's like, listen, my kids are only going to be young once and I'm never going to get this back.
Lindsay Quinn [00:49:33]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:49:34]:
And so she's trusting herself. Right. Kind of comes full circle of where she's like, yeah, I run this practice and it's doing well. However, these school performances in kindergarten are still really important to me.
Lindsay Quinn [00:49:47]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:49:48]:
And I'm gonna shift things to make sure I show up for my children as a mother. And I'm still going to be a business owner.
Lindsay Quinn [00:49:56]:
Yeah. Gives me chills. I mean, it's. I think that's just such a universal feeling and thread for 100 working moms, entrepreneur moms, and like. And like, how lucky are we that we get to be entrepreneurs? And say, you know what? I'm gonna take Thursdays off because my son is not in preschool on Thursdays.
Cassie Kellner [00:50:18]:
Right. Like, yeah. Yes.
Lindsay Quinn [00:50:20]:
I feel like I'm grateful of that.
Cassie Kellner [00:50:22]:
Like, me too.
Lindsay Quinn [00:50:23]:
It's hard work. No doubt about it. It takes a lot of energy. It's a lot of, you know, 4:30 in the morning emails or Saturday Sunday work.
Cassie Kellner [00:50:31]:
Yes.
Lindsay Quinn [00:50:31]:
And like, it's all on my terms and I wouldn't have it any other way. Me too.
Cassie Kellner [00:50:35]:
Me too. Lindsay. Listen, my friend, my, my Linda to my Cathy, I am so Grateful for you. I'm grateful that we are on this journey together and that we are on this new path, which is, which was, by the way, for both of us, was never the plan.
Lindsay Quinn [00:50:54]:
Never the plan.
Cassie Kellner [00:50:55]:
And we are doing it. And we have each other's backs. And I will say to anyone listening to this, find yourself a Lindsay. Find yourself someone that you can text and call and say, oh my gosh, this just happened and I'm panicking. Or, what do I do about this? Or I'm doing this lecture. Can you look at this? Does it sound crazy? Or, hey, Linds, I'm gonna start a podcast and this is, this is the path I'm gonna take.
Lindsay Quinn [00:51:28]:
Oh, I'm so proud of you, Cassie. I really, I really, really am so proud of you. Like, I really, really, really, really do look up to you and totally inspired by you. And you know, like, I'm always telling Sean, like, I cannot believe Cassie is doing. This is so cool. Like, she's doing a podcast. It's amazing. And just everything you've done, you know, like you're, you're confidence and, and I know some of it's not always like, you know, it's. It's.
Cassie Kellner [00:51:55]:
Are you kidding? 40 years, Lindsay, I've had to work it. Listen, you know, I call you and I'm like, I don't know, you show up anyway.
Lindsay Quinn [00:52:05]:
You always show up anyways, which is just so, so inspiring. And it's not easy. It's not easy to show up on social media. I mean, I don't. You do. You do it. And it's. I'm just so impressed. You know, you put yourself out there and it's incredible.
Cassie Kellner [00:52:21]:
I'm impressed by you. I think you're an absolute genius. And I'm. I thank God that in 2008, you were my neighbor. You were the scheduling coordinator to my chairside assistant. You're my Linda to my Cathy. Now you're the heart wise to my Everbloom, Lindsay Quinn. Thank you so much for joining me.
Lindsay Quinn [00:52:40]:
Oh, thank you for having me, Cassie. I love you so much. Much.
Cassie Kellner [00:52:43]:
I love you.
Cassie Kellner [00:52:45]:
Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team. First, if today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
