Cassie Kellner [00:00:00]:
Hey Bloomers, it's Cassie here. I'm thrilled to announce I'm co hosting an in person on site meeting you won't want to miss. The Ortho Society in San Diego, California on May 15th and 16th. I will be collaborating with my co host, Lindsay Quinn, founder of Heartwise Collective, a friend, colleague and powerhouse in practice management. Day one, you learn from us, where we build out Asana workflows, AI systems, CEO dashboards, team growth pathways and more. Day two, collaborate with peers, problem solving, solve and implement systems in real time. This is a hands on, results driven and exclusive experience spots are extremely limited. You can go to the link below or you can head to discover everbloom.com events to apply. Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff called honest convos, leadership lessons and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:11]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner. Today's guest I have known for quite some time now. We've spent a lot of time together. Dr. Melanie Wang. Welcome to The Bloom Effect. Thank you so much for joining me.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:01:28]:
Thank you for having me. I'm just so honored to be here and I hope I can give a lot of insight to my fellow orthodontists and their teams and yeah, let's get the show on the road.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:39]:
Melanie, I have no doubt. Are you kidding? Like, like we, we could be here for like this could be a 90 minute podcast if we wanted it to, you know, like, we won't do that to people. Maybe we'll do part two in the future, but there's so much that we can talk about and you know, we've caught up a lot lately and, and I will like stop. It's funny, I stop our conversation like, wait, wait, wait, let's keep this for the pod. Like so that it, you know, is the first time thing that we're talking about now. Melanie, I always start this podcast with who is Dr. Melanie Wang?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:02:14]:
All right, well, Melanie Wang has evolved, you know, quite a bit, I guess. Like personally, I'll start with the fact that I've been married for 21 years. I got married in dental school and it was like a crazy time of my life. All of my big like life changing events like happened in like two weeks, believe it or not. Like I got married, I graduated, I Moved and everything. I didn't intend for it to be like that, but that's how our marriage started, was with a giant bang. And now we have three beautiful kids. They keep me on my toes. My oldest is 19. I had him in school. And my youngest is 12. And when I say evolved, I just think of, like, all the people I've met, like you and different orthodontists, where I just, like, really never expected my life to be where it is. And it's like, it's such a dream. And I try to enjoy every moment. And when things are good, I just think about, like, okay, this is a great moment. Everyone's happy. No one's fighting, whether it's home or in the office, and I live for those, and I definitely try to appreciate them. So. But, yeah, I've been practicing for, gosh, 19, going on 20 years. I graduated in 2006, and I started my practice pretty much right away. Actually looked for this space while I was in residency, and a bank was, like, willing to give me a loan, so we just kind of went for it. And I did the whole working on the side and starting up my office. And then in 2017, I met Karen, and she really. It was rough, but she really changed my practice strategy for the better. And so did you. I also have a great group of orthodontist friends, and we really help each other as well.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:36]:
So it's been that support.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:04:39]:
Insane ride, right? Yeah. I can't believe I'm here.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:46]:
I know. You know, it's interesting that you say Melanie has evolved. I mean, we've. All of us, we're human. Like, we've evolved, but I've had the joy of watching the evolution and, and, you know, so I have been around for so long in capacities. Right. So it's really co. We caught up recently and, And. And we were on. I feel like we're so, like, just catching up on life, like, you know, and it's. It's really beautiful to see, by the way, you didn't start in a horrible place. Like, I, I. You know, it's just. It was smaller, and we systematized it all.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:05:29]:
And, And.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:33]:
And something that I will never take credit for ever, in your practice is the culture that you have built.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:05:44]:
Thank you, Melanie.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:46]:
I have. It's. It's. It's a. What you have is a rarity.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:05:51]:
Your team is definitely feel that incredible.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:57]:
So how if someone is like, I. My office is full of toxicity, by the way. That's not. That doesn't mean you have not had ebbs and flows and all the things, of course. But how. How did you get to this point? There is such a level of trust in your practice. I. It's massive.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:06:20]:
Yeah, we definitely trust each other. And there's a lot of factors that come into play, and I can't take credit. I have an awesome team, and I have Ariana, and she runs. She's the leader of the team, and she, you know, everybody trusts her. She says that people cry to her, you know, once a week. So I definitely feel like people are comfortable with her. But I think safety is a big thing. And we have a lot of moms and a lot of people with families in our office, and they know that family comes first. And, you know, kids get sick, things happen, and if you got to go, you got to go. And so we've always. Well, we haven't always, but because of what you taught us, we have this, like, always a plus one mentality with our staff, so that if someone needs to go, we're not absolutely crushed. And sometimes we still get absolutely crushed when, like, more people have to be gone, which is a rarity. But we try to have, like, a little bit of a buffer so that you can get through the day and everybody's happy and not exhausted at the end and stressed.
Cassie Kellner [00:07:44]:
Because I feel like if you don't have that buffer, there's just, like, this constant layer of stress. Listen, orthodontic practices are, you know, so busy, especially during the school year at 3 o', clock, like, things change. Everything. The energy, the vibe, it all changes. And when you do have the plus people, it's like, okay, someone is out sick or the flu is going through our practice. Let's get real. Once it hits one person, it's like a domino effect.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:08:17]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:08:18]:
You know, so to. To have that is a game changer. And it certainly sounds like it's worked really well for you.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:08:27]:
Yeah. Because before, I had exactly the number of staff I needed. And this is so bad, and I feel awful saying this, but in those moments, I said, you cannot be sick, which is awesome.
Cassie Kellner [00:08:42]:
Yes, of course.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:08:44]:
Like, that's how it was, like, at the time, like, as orthodontists, like, let's face it, like, we as practice owners and doctors, we don't give ourselves that type of grace. And because we have to get through the day, and that's okay. That's just how we run. But that's not the same for everybody else. And, yeah, that's okay.
Cassie Kellner [00:09:12]:
So there's layers to that, too, Melanie. Right. So you're practice owner, you're orthodontist. You're also mom.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:09:19]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:09:19]:
There's layers. You also have a predominantly female team, as most do, and most females are the default parent when the child is sick or the school calls, you know, and so building a structure, the infrastructure that you have created, allows your team to go, hey, my. The school just called. My son has a fever. Right.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:09:44]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:09:44]:
And. And. And it. It allows that to happen. Does that mean we want it to happen? No. Does, you know, like. But it's life.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:09:53]:
Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's hard, too, when. Especially my kids get sick when they were young, but now they're older, so, yeah, luckily I work super close and, you know, one of us just picks them up and drops them off at the house and they're fine.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:10]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:10:11]:
But, yeah, it definitely is damper. Like, I know that my team would rather be here and, you know, get paid and everything. Um, but yeah, things happen, especially around the wintertime. It's. It's pretty awful.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:25]:
Absolutely. School starts and, like, all the bugs are everywhere. Okay, so you've managed multiple locations. Multiple locations, yes. While still creating a high energy, fun environment. I'm gonna just shout out to Lana here because. Or Lona.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:10:45]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah, because. Tell her that you mentioned her. She'll get a kick out of it.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:51]:
Lona, listen, the things that. The activities and events that Lona creates and the experiences that she does for your team. You want to talk high energy, fun retreats, shared experiences. I mean, when Lona came to one of my courses years ago, we just sat together during lunch and I was blown away. She's like, oh, yeah. And then we did this and she's like, pulling up her phone and I'm. And your whole team is there and they're engaged and, you know, like, they're genuinely excited, Melanie, to come to work. Do you understand that this is such a rarity? I hope you. I mean, you have tons of friends who are orthodontists.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:11:34]:
Yeah, I get it. And I'm really fortunate to have Lona. And the retreats and the extra things that we do for the staff are great, but it's also the day to day. And I remember when I was working with the company and I did this event for them, he was like, you have to engage your audience in the first 30 seconds or it's gone. And I bring that to the huddle and I kind of act all quirky going to the huddle. So if I go in, like, not energized, and I'm Like, I'm tired, I didn't sleep. Then my energy will trans the rest of dates. So the first 30 seconds, I try to inject something, even if it's, like, a really dumb joke. And so the other day, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this, but I'm gonna say this anyway, but do it. So there's like, this dad joke Instagram that I follow, and I. And he goes. And I said, I have to share a joke with everybody because I thought it was so funny. So have you seen the movie Constipation? No, because it hasn't come out yet. And then everybody was just. So I have to, like, try to mix it up. But I try to bring, like, some, like, energy and fun to the huddle every day in the first minute. Otherwise, yeah, the energy is just. It can kind of mess with the day.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:05]:
But it's so good. Wait, that's a really good dad joke.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:13:09]:
It is. That is so good to use it on patients, too, when they, like, really don't want to talk about.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:19]:
Oh, it's so good. You know what? And you're right. Here's the thing. Like, you know those mornings where you are just not feeling it. You're human. You. Maybe you were up all night. Maybe a child was sick. Maybe there's something going on in your world or your family or all the things. Right? And when you have that type of energy as the orthodontist and the leader, it just. It trickles down to everyone.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:13:47]:
Yeah, exactly. And in fact, I have. This is kind of an aside thing, but I'm kind of, like, known in my area too, for, like, my swag and my branding and the energy. And in addition to our usual stuff, this is a Harry Potter advent calendar for the dentist. And you can actually pull it out and have all the slots. And we're gonna put team building activities in and games for each day that they open. So.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:23]:
Because, Melanie.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:14:25]:
Yeah, I thought that'd be cool for, like, you know, holidays, because it's coming up.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:30]:
This is brilliant. Okay, for those that are not. That are not watching, first of all, go on YouTube. Let's just get real. Those that are. Are watching, you can see this. But those that aren't watching this. It is a Harry Potter advent calendar made by Lego. Are there Legos in there too, Melanie? Yeah, they can make it fun.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:14:48]:
Because, you know, we are total children. We have kids. Let me see if I can open it real quick.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:53]:
Listen, the Lego game is real in my house. Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:14:56]:
So it's an Advent calendar. And each for each day we have a minifigure and we also were able to put a little morning huddle game or quote to start the day.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:10]:
This is incredible. So you've printed out a whole month of little huddle games that they can do with their team every single day?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:15:18]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:19]:
Melanie. Brilliant. Lona. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. This is incredible. This is what I mean. Outside of the box, trust, swag. Like, are you kidding me? Listen, next year we're gonna see all of these all over social media after this podcast.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:15:39]:
Yeah, exactly. It's fun. It was really fun. We thought of it actually at Hummingbird too. And then, you know, me and Lona were like, well, we should put like some energy into it and make sure they all use it so that they think about us the entire month.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:53]:
Brilliant.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:15:54]:
Like that we have the best.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:57]:
I love this so much. Okay, so you should be. Are you kidding? Okay. So we talked about this too. You're kind of in this midlife season. You're not a startup, you're not brand new. You, you're making some big changes have, you know, in the. How does that feel right now to be in that midlife? Because you're doing some big picture moves right now. There's some real estate happening behind the scenes. You. We were just talking about this before you got. Before we hit record. But you've taken out new loans for these big decisions and by the way, you said a quote and I feel like you have to say this, Melanie, what you said about tuition and growth.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:16:49]:
Tuition for growth.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:51]:
Say it again.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:16:52]:
Discomfort is the tuition for growth.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:55]:
Okay. Do you feel that right now?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:16:58]:
A hundred percent. And my personality, and I think a lot of your listeners personality is. We wouldn't have it any other way, right?
Cassie Kellner [00:17:09]:
Absolutely.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:17:10]:
Because before I started all this, I was in a good spot. Like I could have kept going and had no loans and everything was, was good and. But there wasn't. I mean, I hate to say that I was bored but. Because I wasn't bored. But I kind of was a little bit.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:33]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:17:35]:
And this just seemed like the right move for this time in my life if I was able to do it. Because there's obviously hurdles that once you find a place you have to go through and that's this whole mind numbing experience. It's like buying a house.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:53]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:17:53]:
And you're putting in an offer and you get it accepted and you have to go through escrow. But then the underwriters asking for all these different things and it's just like nerve wracking like Are they going to give me this loan or not?
Cassie Kellner [00:18:06]:
Yes.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:18:07]:
So. But that's just. I think that's just how I've always been. And I'm sure other people can relate with going to school and going for such a high degree and then starting a practice and. Yeah. Even getting married and having kids. It's all an adventure. It's all totally.
Cassie Kellner [00:18:27]:
Yeah. You know, it's interesting too. I feel, I feel the same way that you do if I'm not feeling challenged and then there's some, like, I feel stagnant in my career if I'm not currently being challenged, you know, and then I get the challenge and I ride it out for a bit because I've got to take a breath. And then I'm like, okay, what's next? And then I take it on and it makes me like, really. Okay, here we go. I don't know if we can do. Oh, we can do this. Okay, now we gotta ride this out, like, right.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:19:01]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:01]:
And it's just kind of that wave of business. So I think it's really interesting that you felt that and then you were like, no, this actually is the right decision. You are going to buy real estate, by the way, in San Diego. Let's be very clear where you are.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:19:16]:
Yeah, it's. It's nearly impossible and it's got its own, like, quirks and permitting issues and all that. But I. If someone's willing to give me the money, just like when I started my practice, someone was willing to give me the money to like a brand new grad, no experience whatsoever, to start the project from scratch, then I feel like I'm like, in a little bit of a better financial situation now. So. Yeah, let's do it.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:51]:
Yeah, let's do it. Here comes the challenge.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:19:54]:
Yeah. And I'd say, like, definitely with being in practice as long as I have, you just have a clearer sense of your vision and what you want your patient experience to be and your values, your standards, all of that. It's more clear versus before you were trying to please everybody and now you're. It's more about. It's actually more about the team and keeping everybody. Because if we, as long as we're happy in a good place, then we can provide the same to others. And hopefully it shows.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:28]:
Hopefully. I'm here to tell you right now, my friend, it shows.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:20:32]:
Thank you.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:33]:
It shows. Okay, since we're on the subject of challenges, can we talk about your marathon journey?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:20:41]:
Thank you.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:42]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:20:43]:
That was a little nuts because in high school and even before That I was not a runner. And there was the San Diego rock and roll. It was the day. It was on my birthday, my 40th birthday. And so in January, and this race is in June, I made the decision to go for the half marathon as my first workout in my 40s. And so your training was fine. It went great. But then as soon as you cross the line, every runner will say to you. And that's when I started, like, really having, like, toxic running. Not toxic in a bad way, but in a good way. As soon as you cross the line, they're like, what's your next race?
Cassie Kellner [00:21:29]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:21:29]:
And so it's a great form of working out, and it's, again, trying to reach a goal. And as far as running Boston, which I can tell you, it was, like, one of the top five experiences of my life, I decided to go for it when I bumped up in age, which, when you're a marathoner trying to qualify for Boston, you actually live for aging because you get, like, five to ten more minutes. So once I aged up, I was like, well, I have a real shot at this, so I'm gonna go for it. And of course, the first couple times I did the marathon, I bonked, hit the wall. It happens. But it made me want to try harder. And so I think it was my fourth marathon I qualified, which was have age standards, and getting under it means you're allowed to apply.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:34]:
Okay.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:22:35]:
But for the next year and a half, I would get under that age standard and not get in because you had to go even further under, which I think most of your listeners can relate. It feels a fire in you. Like, no, right. I gotta do it now. And it was my eighth marathon where I felt like, okay, this is finally the time that I think will help me get in. And it did. It did. So it's a journey. It's a journey. And then running the race itself is like, the celebration, because Boston is amazing. And the second I landed, I was crying and I cried whole time. I cried picking up the bib. I cried, like, during the race. And I didn't know it would hit me like that because even when I cried at my wedding. But when I graduated from orthoresidency, all of my co residents, like, half of them men, were crying because they were, like, so relieved that they finished the journey. And I, like, quite honestly, I didn't get it. I kind of got it because, yeah, we've all been through a lot and we're finally done, but I didn't cry. But, like, like, Boston I was just a mess the whole time. Like, the whole three hours. It was. It was crazy. And then at the end, I. The volunteers who hand out the medals, they. She saw me, and then, like, she gave me a hug, and then I just, like, fell to the floor and. Yeah, it was just, you know, reaching a goal. Especially, like, at this stage of my life, I'm in my later 40s. It's. There's not a lot of goals to really reach anymore. So it was just, like, really one of the best things ever. Like, ever, ever. And I hope to go back again, but now it's, like, even harder to get. So. Melanie.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:47]:
Yeah, it's so powerful. Especially that, you know, you had this goal and it took you eight marathons to get there, and then you did it. And by the way, the Boston Marathon is an incredible experience, so I don't blame you that you were in tears from the minute you touched down.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:25:07]:
Yeah, it was. I mean, it's hard to do. Not everybody gets it, and I. And I get that. So being there was, like, the biggest gift.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:20]:
You know what else? I can. You know what else is really interesting as you're saying? All of this is when you become. When you work really hard in school and you become an orthodontist and you have your own business and you're successful and you run a successful practice, and then you're a mother, and you're successful at that. This was actually all about you. It didn't have anything to do with anyone else. Not a team member, not a child, not your husband, not your family or friends. Like, this was you. And so I feel like, don't care.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:25:58]:
Like, my. My family cares, but, like. But I think I started the whole running thing. I'm just going to interrupt you because you know how, like, you're in your 20s and you're, like, single and like, oh, I'm so alone.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:14]:
Yes.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:26:15]:
Who's gonna love me? And now we're like, I just want to be alone.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:20]:
Like, I.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:26:20]:
Can I just be alone? And I think for me, running was my time during the week where nobody could bother me. And that's why I live for it, because I was by myself.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:33]:
Okay, so you're telling me you need to run a marathon? Because I have a five and a six year old and I'm running my own business, and I need running time going on.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:26:43]:
You need something where you can be by yourself with your own thoughts. And sometimes it's as simple as, like when you're consulting and you're traveling, like, being in your Hotel room, alone. Like, peace and quiet. And I know, like, that's my stage right now. And then in the future, I'd be like, why am I always alone again? But right now I'm like. And I don't always want to be alone. But those moments where, like, I come home, like, midday and the house is empty, I'm like, that's insane, right?
Cassie Kellner [00:27:17]:
No, I'm with you.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:27:18]:
What is going on? This is awesome.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:21]:
I'm with you 100%. Everyone in my life, friends, family, colleagues, orthodontic, doesn't matter. Ask me. What do you do when you. You know. I've traveled internationally for consulting for the past close to 10 years now. What do you do when you go to all these cities? I've been to the most random places for these practices that I loved. And I go. I order doordash, I eat it in my hotel room bed. By the way. Don't judge me. But, like, I will straight eat sushi in my bed watching something on Bravo. And I do not. And then I prep for the next day, like, that's all I do. My husband cannot grasp that I'm not, like, going out to dinner or having a drink at the bar, or I'm like, do you understand how good this feels that I'm, like, in this robe.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:28:15]:
In the hotel alone, eating on the bed? We don't let our kids do that.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:20]:
We don't do. I don't eat in my room. That's like, absolutely not. Yeah. Are you kidding? Like, Melanie, you're speaking to me, like, truly, truly. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking right now.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:28:36]:
The greatest gift.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:38]:
It's brilliant. It's brilliant. And I'm so glad you brought that up, because it's true. We need moments like that. We have to. We have to have moments like that. And by the way, most regular humans, including myself, from a day to day, that only moment I get is when I'm showering.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:28:56]:
Exactly.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:57]:
That's when the thoughts, you know, happen.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:29:00]:
Yeah. And it's same, like, when I run. Like, no one's gonna chase me outside my time. I'm blasting music, like, any kind of music I can. I'm in at the moment. So, yeah, it's awesome.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:17]:
I love it.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:29:18]:
It's my moment. And I hope that I'm more about longevity with running. Like, I don't want to, like, kill myself to qualify for Boston. If I try again, it's about, like, hopefully I can do this forever. And I'm not. Like, the doctor's not like, okay, you have to stop, which happens, and then I gotta find something else to do.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:38]:
And you will.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:29:41]:
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see what happens after I move into the new building. I'll probably figure out something else to do.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:50]:
Yeah. What have these experiences taught you about balance, resilience? And we've talked a little bit about, like, the secrets of adulthood.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:30:04]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:05]:
What. What is this really taught you? All of it. You know, the marathoning, the culture building, the practice, owning the new. The new venture you're on for 20, 26, you know, what can you share?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:30:23]:
So to do all those things, it's. I mean, it sounds so cliche, but you have to let go of a lot of things. And one quote that I. There's like a few secrets of adulthood that I. Some are like, really cheesy and then some are like more deep. But one thing, and this is like, okay to say as an orthodontist is like, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. It's a Voltaire saying, and it's so true. Like, it goes with cases. And for me, with my running journey, I started when my daughter was like four at the time and always like on me and everything, so. And I have to like run four miles for the day. And so what I had to do was I had to break up the four miles into eight sessions, like five minutes here, 10 minutes here, just to get it done. So, yeah, like, it wasn't perfect, but I got it done. And that's one of the things I think about quite a bit. And also another one is following the one minute rule is a good one. And it's something that I learned reading a book. And it's about, if there's any task that pops in your head that you can do in a minute, go ahead and do it. And that seems to knock out like 80% of the task for the day. You don't even think about it. Just do it. Another one you'll like, this one is with electronics, if it doesn't work, what do you do if your computer doesn't work or your phone doesn't work? Is turn it off and turn it back on again. It solves like 80% of the problem. Today, Microsoft is really buggy. And sometimes my staff will be like, the computer's not working. And I'm like, that's weird that it all of a sudden isn't working. We'll give it a day, use another computer. And then they're like, oh, yeah, it works again. So I have so all those little fun things that I think about in my head and it gets me through the day and it really does help a lot.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:50]:
Don't you think too, that that turn it off, turn back on again is just like a metaphor for life? I mean, there's so much more that comes with that. Right. Like, yeah, it's not working right now. That doesn't mean it's not going to work forever. It just didn't work right now. Give it a little time and come back.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:33:11]:
I love that because now I think about it, I probably had great ideas in my early career that I tried and didn't work then. But coming full circle again, I think it'll work. Oh, my gosh.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:27]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Walk away, come back. You know, I talk about this often and have for years about. I'll use this as an example. It's a ridiculous example, but like, people who tried indirect bonding 20, 25 years ago.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:33:45]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:46]:
And now refuse to try indirect bonding in 2025, going into 2026. It's like, you know, we've evolved quite a bit.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:33:55]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:56]:
Since we were making our own suck down trays with who knows what. And you know, like, this isn't the same indirect bonding that it once was. And so, like, that's, that's obviously over an extended period of time, but, like, turn it off, turn it back on. It doesn't mean it's not always going to work. It means right now.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:34:19]:
I did try indirect bonding at the beginning of my career, of course. Master too, of indirect bonding back then and now. Yeah. We tried it like 17 years ago, thought it sucked.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:34]:
Yep.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:34:34]:
And then we've been doing it now for five years and it's been amazing.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:39]:
Yep.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:34:39]:
Because there it is.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:42]:
Yeah.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:34:43]:
Turn it off, turn it back on.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:45]:
That's right. That's right. And sometimes just in life, like, we're not ready. We're not ready for things. That doesn't mean we can't come back to it. I love this so much, Melanie. Yes.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:34:57]:
Like a light bulb, like in our head.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:59]:
Totally. I had an aha moment just now of, that is brilliant. I might use that forever based on this conversation. Yes.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:35:10]:
Yes, you should. It's all yours.
Cassie Kellner [00:35:13]:
No, it's yours too. And I'm gonna use you as the example because this is brilliant. I love it.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:35:20]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:35:21]:
Melanie, what do you think before we wrap this up? What's one of the biggest lessons or surprises you've been in practice now nearly 20 years from any of these chapters that you've been in? What would you say has been the biggest lesson or surprise for you?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:35:43]:
The biggest Surprise. I think personally is, again, you shouldn't underestimate yourself. You are capable of so much. If graduated from school, me, saw how I was now, I think they would be, like, completely shocked. In all aspects of my life, like, life is just like that. The fact that I have three kids when for a long time we were thinking we'd have only one kid. One child. That's crazy. And the fact that my career has taken this really fun, direct trajectory, and the fact that I can say, like, I get to own my practice, which is. It's like Taylor Swift working so hard to own her music. She made this huge deal about it, but really. And it's about the journey, too. Enjoying the journey. Because I think about, like, the end goal of everything. And for me, getting there is what drives me. Like, you're there, right? Just like we talked about that whole discomfort. You're there and, like, you enjoy it for maybe, I don't know, like, six months or so, and then you're like, okay, like, on to the next thing.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:14]:
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:37:17]:
So, yeah. And that's just life. And, you know, my kids are, like, so great. And it's funny how the whole checklist thing has been amazing at home, too. They're just so independent and learned that because my son's, like, on the spectrum. And so we had an ABA and he showed us how to do checklists and he would. And also the little kids did checklists, and then we just, like, translated that into everything at home. And now it's been amazing. They're so independent. They've been, like, getting themselves ready since at least the little ones, not Tyler. But they've been getting themselves ready for school on their own since, like, first grade. It's checklist work, not just for your team, but for home, too.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:07]:
Melanie. You know, I'm like, the checklist.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:38:09]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:10]:
It's embarrassing, actually. How much? Let me tell you, not only do I live for Asana, but I recently just got a skylight calendar where I can create checklists for my kids in there. And they get little star rewards, and it's just like, you're talking. It's been a game changer.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:38:28]:
Yeah, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:29]:
Listen, when they get a star, it's a big deal. They're five and six years old.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:38:33]:
Yeah, exactly. That leads to, like, rewards and cool things. Yes. So you have to enjoy that because the fact that they live for treats and everything, because now it's different.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:48]:
Yeah, I know. I'll take it in. I'll take it in.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:38:52]:
Yeah, it's kind of about, like, it's really about, like, how they feel about themselves. And their wins right now are not like material things. And I think that's just like a symbol of how when you get older, you like, don't really cherish those things. It's, I think about one thing I noticed was as a 47 year old woman is I don't get enjoyment out of like buying something shiny like a car or anything, but I get a lot of enjoyment over, like paying off a loan. Like that is something to celebrate.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:36]:
Absolutely.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:39:38]:
And so my kids are like, still kind of in the shiny cool thing, but they're more about like doing well in a class or winning a game. So it's more about what they've done versus what I can do for them.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:52]:
That just speaks to your parenting too, though. Melanie.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:39:55]:
Thank you. Well, it's all a work in progress. It's so hard.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:02]:
I know. I'm with you. That could be a whole other podcast. Yeah. Oh, gosh.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:40:06]:
Exactly.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:08]:
Dr. Melanie Wang, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:40:13]:
I had so much fun.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:15]:
Thank you so much, ray of sunshine. I truly, I. I can't thank you enough for joining me and having this true authentic conversation and sharing that advent calendar and us having this. We had an aha moment live on this podcast.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:40:32]:
Beautiful. I mean, I'm gonna put that like in my new office, like on the wall somewhere.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:36]:
Oh my gosh. Send me a picture when you share it with the world. Are you kidding me?
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:40:41]:
And yeah, thank you again for saying amazing things about my team. I'm definitely gonna tell them all of that because it's just gonna make their day coming from somebody like you.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:51]:
Thank you. And I love them and they know that already. And I will shout it from the rooftops what you have created and what they have created and, and creating safe spaces for one another is such a beautiful thing. And thank you again, Melanie, for joining me. So good to have you here.
Dr. Melanie Wang [00:41:09]:
Thank you.
Cassie Kellner [00:41:11]:
Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team. First, if today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time. Keep leading with heart. Keep building with intention and keep blooming right where you're planted.
