Cassie Kellner [00:00:00]:
Hey bloomers, it's Cassie here. I'm thrilled to announce I'm co hosting an in person on site meeting you won't want to miss. The Ortho Society in San Diego, California on May 15th and 16th. I will be collaborating with my co host, Lindsay Quinn, founder of Heartwise Collective, a friend, colleague and powerhouse in practice management. Day one, you learn from us, where we build out Asana workflows, AI systems, CEO dashboards, team growth pathways and more. Day two, collaborate with peers, problem solving, solve and implement systems in real time. This is a hands on, results driven and exclusive experience spots are extremely limited. You can go to the link below or you can head to discover everbloom.com events to apply welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff on honest convos, leadership lessons and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:10]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner and I am joined by a dear friend, colleague, once client, by the way, Janna Nelson. Welcome to The Bloom Effect.
Janna Nelson [00:01:27]:
Thank you, Cassie. I'm so happy to be here.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:31]:
I'm so excited. I know we're finally doing it. Okay, Janna, I know.
Janna Nelson [00:01:35]:
I was just thinking that we're finally doing this.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:39]:
Jana and I have known each other since 2018.
Janna Nelson [00:01:48]:
Maybe.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:49]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:01:49]:
Was it 2018? Okay.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:51]:
Yeah. It could have been earlier, but I like, met you in a practice in 2018. And the reason I know that is because I was pregnant with my first baby. And so it, like, that's how it correlates, like my years, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so. And I was like, newly pregnant. Nobody knew I was traveling into all of these offices, just like going to dinner, like, do you want wine? I'm like, no thanks. So we met in 2018. You were working in a practice and then we just continue to connect. Throughout the years, your career journey has evolved in something so fun. It's such a cool story. And here we are, you know, a million years later and we're doing this podcast. You and I connect all the time. And we were on recently, just chatting about, which I'm really excited we're going to chat about this today, but we're chatting about, like, what happens when you turn 40. As a female, we can only speak for ourselves, but like, what happens in that mindset shift and the things. So before we jump into that. Jana. I always start this podcast, as you know. Who is Jana Nelson?
Janna Nelson [00:03:10]:
So I'm so glad that you brought up the 40, because I do feel like things have changed so much over the last few years. So I started my dental journey back when I was in my early 20s. I was a young mom trying to figure out I wanted a career. I knew I wanted to be in a career where I helped people. I tried college a few times with young children. It was really tough. And I always seemed to kind of push towards something where I'm working with the community, wanted to work with people, whether it was social work, therapy. I just didn't quite know what my niche was. And a friend of mine, family member, kind of an aunt, her brother owned a dental practice and was like, hey, he's doing dental assisting classes. You get certified now. Secretly, I was not a huge fan of the dentist growing up.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:04]:
I love. Oh my gosh.
Janna Nelson [00:04:06]:
I was not. I, you know, was the patient that would floss like a day before I go to my, my appointments and then they would tell me I need to floss more. And I was like, yeah, I swear I'm flossing. And we know, right? Yeah, in the dental community now. But anyway, so I just didn't have great experiences. I always had to have feelings done. I had soft enamel. So going into a dental practice in my mind at that point was like, okay, I want a career. This has been handed to me. And at that moment, I obviously didn't look at it the same way. I look at things now, which when things come into your life, there's a reason. So I took a leap and I did it and I got certified and my first job was a dental practice up in Nashua, actually. And you're a Massachusetts. I live in, I live in. Right. I live in Massachusetts in a little town called Billerica, which we say Billerica. And I'm not from here, but I've been here, gosh, for over 20 years now. I raised my three boys. I guess I should go back to that. I had three boys. I. Twin boys that are 26. One just got married and then I have a 16 year old boy and they're all amazing. So, yeah, I worked in dental, worked there for a couple years, got a lot of experience, got to work with some great dental dentists that would come in, periodontists, ended on us. Worked with this amazing endodontist that would come down from Canada and he was a, he was like, definitely a mentor for me at that point because I was so young. And then some things that happened within the practice. There was some changes. And then I kind of started dabbling. What am I going to do next? So I applied for everything. As we know. We take our resume and we drop it off to dental practices, oral practices, endo, whatever it was. And I came into working for a great office, great orthodontist in my area. And so I've been in the ortho field for. I mean, over. It's really been over 15, 18. 18 years, something like that. Now that makes me feel really old.
Cassie Kellner [00:06:24]:
Same.
Janna Nelson [00:06:25]:
But with that being said, and then after Covid, things kind of changed again. Shifted. Right. Our lives change. Family chain. There was some, you know, some things in my own personal life that had changed, and I needed to. I knew. And you and I, when you and I met, and I think if you remember this, I remember saying to you, like, I. How do you. How do you get into this? How do you get into consulting? You were an ortho assistant and. And even, like, we had other companies that would come in and train us, and I'd be like, how do you get into this? I'm. I'm kind of interested in this. And when I reached out to you, well, now it's. I mean, I've been with. We'll say I've been with Ulab now for. It'll be. It was four years, July 1st. So when I had reached out to you and said, I'm looking for something else, I think I'm. I love working with patients. I love what I'm doing, but I think I'm outgrowing it. And I think I felt that way for a long time. I just didn't quite know the steps I needed to take to kind of get out of it and what I was going to do. And I think I can kind of speak for a lot of orthodontic assistance, male or female. You get to a certain point and you're not sure what's next, and you're not sure how to take those steps. And I think some people get kind of stuck. And I'm definitely one person that I feel my whole life. And there's. I'm actually. I'm thinking about writing a book, but that's another thing.
Cassie Kellner [00:08:06]:
But, Jana, oh, my gosh, I love this.
Janna Nelson [00:08:09]:
Yeah. So. And it's only because it's been brought up a few times now. And I said, you know, I think there's a journey that we all take, and we all have a story. We all have the reasons why we end up where we are. And I believe that you and I met all those years ago, and even though it took me a little bit to kind of get to that point of my next step in my journey, you and I connecting. When we did, it was. You have. And I know I say this to you all the time, how much I thank you for that. And you're like, it wasn't me, it was you. I'm like, no, but I wouldn't have ended up here if I hadn't. Maybe if I hadn't reached out to you. But you had an opportunity and you sent me a text months later and said, hey, I have an opportunity. That came up. What do you think? And I think all those people that hired me, still to this day, because I didn't think I could. I don't think I ever saw myself working on the other side because I just didn't think I was. Was I not educated enough? Was I good enough? You know, were people gonna. Are people gonna look at me and say, wow, she, she knows, you know, like she knows what she's doing, or are they gonna be like, oh, geez, you know, I don't know if this is. I had all this doubt, I guess.
Cassie Kellner [00:09:30]:
You know, Janna, but I don't you feel like we all do that. I mean, I've done that in my entire career and you know, and. And even though I don't outward show it all the time, in my early days of consulting, I was like, what? The imposter syndrome was so big for me that I was like, I would go. I remember going into practices in my early days. I was in a Canadian practice and I was in my early. Must have been my early 30s going into this practice. Day one, that evening, sitting on the edge of my bed in my hotel and just crying and going, I'm not good enough. This practice is better than what I can provide. Like these things that go through my brain of like, the imposter is real and it's just mindset shift. So, like, this is a perfect example of what we're going to talk. Talk about too, because I have gone through it in my evolution of consulting and coaching. And that practice was one of my absolute favorites. We did the. Some of the most powerful things in this practice. I'm still very close with the doctor, you know, it's just. But I had this moment. I mean, even the first time I lectured, shout out Tracy Moad. I cried all night long. I had a two hour lecture and it was to 200 people and I was like, I cannot do this. Like, I am so overwhelmed to be able to do this, I cried. I don't know if anybody has ever heard of tapping, but, like, you tap on certain points of your body, and it, like, there's, like, the whole science behind it. I wish I knew more and I could speak to it, but I actually learned how to tap in that moment. So I'm in my hotel room. Like.
Janna Nelson [00:11:31]:
You'Re like, where can I tap.
Cassie Kellner [00:11:33]:
To make this feel better? Yeah, my collarbones. My. My temples. I'm, like, following along on this random YouTube. But, like, you're right, Janna. We do it to ourselves. And the reality is, is that now you're. You're nearing five years with this company, and you're killing it, and you had all of this doubt, right? And. And by the way, Janna, you're not alone in this either. I get DMS and LinkedIn messages and emails from people all the time who ask me, how do I get into consulting? And I've gotten that for the past 10 years. And the reality is, I just got a DM. Jana, this is no joke. It's three days ago. And she said, I really want to get into consulting. I'm watching you and your brand from afar. How do I do this? And I said, no joke. This is what I said. And we joked back and forth. I don't know this girl. I think that she has all the potential in the world. I think everyone does. If you want to do it, do it, is what I would say to you. Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting to me is I said to her, you have to have a lot of confidence. And coffee, like, truly, from the bottom of my heart, like, you have to go into it going, I might actually fail at this or program that I launched, might not launch the way that I envisioned it, but I still had the confidence to move forward. And so did you, Jana.
Janna Nelson [00:13:10]:
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's. And it's so funny you're saying this, because I know you and I both listen to. Can we give a shout out to Mel Robbins?
Cassie Kellner [00:13:20]:
Of course. Are you kidding?
Janna Nelson [00:13:22]:
Like, Melro. Like, if. And I. And I'm one. I 100% will send her podcast to people. I will. Hey, have you listened to Mel Rob? And some people have heard of Mel Robbins, some haven't. And I literally was just yesterday at the gym listening to a podcast about this exact thing. Taking. Taking a leap of faith. And don't say no, say yes, because what's going to happen? You say no, you never do it. You're never going to know, you know, what the future holds for you.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:52]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:13:52]:
And you know, again, I think those are those self doubt feelings and I. It was so funny. You're talking about crying, you know, not funny, but talking about crying. I remember the funny now. Four months. I know it's funny now, right. I remember the first three, four months. And it was one of the assistants that. It was my, my dear friend Kim who I haven't spoke to in a long time. She was like, Mama Kim, we call her. And she was like, listen, it's. This is. You're gonna get through this. It's hard and it feels like you're never gonna get it, but it's gonna click. And it took me probably three or four months and I'd come home. My husband at the time was like, what is. Do you. Why are you still doing this? I'm like, because I have to. I'm going to, I'm going to learn this, right. Coming from general to ortho is a whole different ball game. So taking. Right. And I didn't know that. I had no idea. I'm like, it's dental. Like, oh. But it's like a whole. Yeah, it's like a whole different shift. So. Yeah, I think. And that goes back to being in the 40s, right. And realizing all these things that I wish, I wish that I. And I, and I know there's a reason we don't know all these things back in our 20s, but I wish some of the things that I know now and how I see things in life and how I experience them and how I even just people that I meet. I wish that I felt that way back in my 20s. And I knew that there wasn't. I didn't, you know, no self doubt. Like the self doubt still kicks in, right? You still have those. We're human even coming on this podcast. I was like, oh my gosh, is my hair okay? Like, is everything right? Am I wearing the right color, my background? Like everything right? Like you're. You overthink it almost because it's like you, you get nervous, but then you're right. There's a shift in your brain and the way that you have to think about things. And I think for me, honestly, Cassie and I said this to you probably in the last six, eight months. I'm trying to really look at things on a positive and trying to see things like, okay, like I think I said to, to this the day we talked sitting in traffic, right? Gotta get to that appointment, gotta get to that whatever. And you're In a rush, and you're like, what the heck? I'm like, you know, why are we sitting in traffic, taking a moment, going, all right, there's a reason that I'm sitting in traffic right now. Take. Just take a moment. This is my moment to maybe breathe. Maybe this is my moment to take, to slow down, take a pause, you know, trying to kind of look at things again in that. Kind of. In that way. And I think, again, I think it's a shift in our mindset as we get older, because we're. We know the older we get. And I hate to say this, but the less time we have. Right. Or the less, you know, moments we have and to really appreciate those moments.
Cassie Kellner [00:16:48]:
But don't you feel too. Janna. I don't know. I felt this when 40 was coming for me. There was, like, this crazy feeling of empowerment that I felt within where I was like, okay, I have lived 40 years, and I have a journey and a story. And I had a massive career shift when I was turning 40 and started Everbloom and this. This. This, you know, business and really wanted to tap into team culture, clarity, collaboration, internal team development and growth. Like. And it was almost like I was projecting on what I wanted for myself as well.
Janna Nelson [00:17:37]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:38]:
Actually piece that together. Janna, you know what? I just did it.
Janna Nelson [00:17:41]:
No, that makes sense. You literally just did. And you know what, Cassie? Like, the fact that you did this, I. I told you, I'm. When you. When you. When. When you and I talked and you said you were doing this, I was like, when can I start? Remember? I was like, can you hire me? I was like, I'm like, I want to work with you because I feel like what you're bringing. It's true, though, what you're bringing. Not only, like, you're like. Because you're like. You know, we talk about different colors, and you. You're a yellow. You're bright, you're sunny, you're shiny. You're. You're a good human. And I think for you, you coming into the practice that I was working at, it was a light for us. It was like awakening, you know? And I think that that's important because I think you kind of. Especially in an orthopractice, you go into work, okay, got 90 patients, 120 patients. All right, what's the schedule? What are we going to do? All right. And I think you have to remember we're all people, and we all have something outside of work. Right? Work, life, balance. So being able to really know that. Okay, so maybe this assistant is a few minutes late because she's going to drop her kids off because she's a single mom. Right. Having that kind of mindset that everyone has something outside of work, but we're all coming into work to do a job, and we're all here to take care of patients, support our doctors. Right. And you also tap into the team part of it, and I love that. Like, you made us feel like we were important. We weren't just a clinical team. We were a huge, important part of that team, of that practice.
Cassie Kellner [00:19:29]:
And it's the truth, you know, truth it is. These clinical teams are important. And I will, till the day I die, I will be an advocate for them. And, you know, that's why I create playbooks. That's why I'm like, as you said, Jana, moving from general into ortho, like, that is a very, very difficult thing to do. And people don't. I don't think people are talking about that stepping stone or the stepping stone. And in any capacity and being, you know, chairside in an orthodontic practice, you're speaking a totally different language. And I've been there, I've been on the ground. I've been the person who's doing the transitioning chairside. And it's difficult. And it's going to be 2026. We owe this to our teams. So in the theme of what we're talking about, Jana, it is a mindset. People, everyone out there, 40 or not, should be shifting their mindset in 2026 and really thinking about how you're going to transform your team. And if there's any level of toxicity or you have team members who are struggling because they don't have clear direction, I would encourage them to sit down, have a moment and go, okay, these are the things that are really important that I'm going to focus on. While I believe, and I know you cannot have a thriving practice without a very high conversion and incredible revenue and, you know, production. And the only way you're going to get to those things is if you have a thriving team.
Janna Nelson [00:21:20]:
100%.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:21]:
That's it. That's it.
Janna Nelson [00:21:23]:
100%.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:25]:
They are the foundation.
Janna Nelson [00:21:28]:
They are. And I think that sometimes because we're so. Because practices are so busy at. We got to make money, we're going to make. Right. I mean, revenue, revenue, revenue. Of course, you have to think about the people that you have working with you. And I think that, again, each person brings something different to the table. But when you talk about toxicity, there sometimes is a toxicity in that group. And you have to. You have to kind of weed that stuff out too, you know, because one person can be a poison for an entire. And this isn't just an ortho. This is just in general. Yeah, you've got a negative Nelly and you're even. Even your group of friends and you're like, oh, goodness, you know, negative Nelly or whoever, you know, you know, same thing. I feel like, oh, 100. And I think, I think again, what you're bringing is you're trying to show them that, like, okay, we need to train people properly. We need to. From. From start to finish. And that doesn't mean chairside. That means how does. You know, how's the front. What's the front's responsibility? What's the TC's responsibility? What's the clinic's responsibility? What's a doctor's responsibility? And training is huge. I mean, how many times I've gone into practices, even working with where I am now, and just having there be a little bit of chaos because everyone's trying to figure out how to, you know, integrate a system, a new system. Right. And I remember those days. I remember when the ITERO scanner came out and we were like, wait, what? We're like, we take impressions and they. I remember the doctors being like, right, but this is the new way that. This is the new age. I mean, this was years ago right now. But yeah, I remember that shift in all of us being like, so anxious about it.
Cassie Kellner [00:23:20]:
Totally.
Janna Nelson [00:23:21]:
But at the time. Now, here's the thing, and this is where I feel like you come into play at the time they're training two people how to do this. No, this needs to be like when you make a change to a practice and you're bringing. And you're trying to integrate something into a practice, everybody needs to be part of it, because you have two people. So you teach to be and then nobody else. It makes in it. How does that make the team feel? That makes sense.
Cassie Kellner [00:23:50]:
Well, and then they're out.
Janna Nelson [00:23:53]:
And then if that person's out sick. Yes. The same thing with lab. The labs. All the labs that are up and. And running and practice practices. I can't tell you how many times, oh, we lost our lab tech and now I don't know what I'm doing. And it's. And again, it's those little things that I think, even for my current job, I, I bring and I say so, like, if a doctor is trying to get a lab up and running, I say to them, make sure you Have. You need to have one or two. You need to have at least two team members that know how to do this. And they really. I mean, I don't say shouldn't, but having them be in the clinic and the lab is.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:29]:
Is tough.
Janna Nelson [00:24:29]:
That's a. That's a huge.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:30]:
It is tough.
Janna Nelson [00:24:32]:
And I've seen that, you know, not go well and not be successful. So again, it goes back to taking the time. I was actually in a practice in Ohio like a month and a half ago. And I'm just gonna shout out to Dr. Alvetro. She literally has. And I don't know if you've met her. I think you and I. I think I asked you this when I walked into this into the practice. So it was me and another team member and our rep. And I was like, I literally walked in and you could instantly feel this like really great vibe. All right.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:11]:
The.
Janna Nelson [00:25:12]:
The artwork was all hand painted by a local artist. All like animals from Africa and every. Anyways, that's part of. That's not even part of it. But I walk in and the one thing that I noticed with this team, not only did they have an amazing meeting in the morning, they sat down in their conference room. Like I want to say it was probably 30 assistants looking at the screen, going through the, you know, what do we have coming in? We were there to look at IDB stuff. They had everybody, everyone knew what their job was. And I felt like it was a. When I say well oiled machine, I say that. And when I say that, it means something because I know that I've been asked. This seems like a well built machine. Okay, sure. But this was like you could tell and you could tell. The doctor really puts a lot of time and effort into her team. And that's what it comes down to. And so because of that, she has an amazing team.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:10]:
Yep.
Janna Nelson [00:26:10]:
You know, and I mean, she sent some team members to, I think it was Germany to go do some training about like the, the printers and stuff. So they know the ins and outs of. Of the entire lab. So us coming in there, we were able to really get down to the nitty gritty of everything that we needed to see and experience on the IDB side. And she just. I just. I still. I want to go back and visit just because it felt so good, you know, it was such a positive experience.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:40]:
You can feel it. And if you can feel it, Jana, I can feel it. Then guess who else can feel it? The team and the patient.
Janna Nelson [00:26:49]:
The patient. And that's exactly it too. The Patient can feel it.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:53]:
That's it. Like, when people are burnt out and there's toxicity and there's eye rolling behind the scenes, you think your patients aren't paying attention. But let's get real. It's 20, 25. And let me tell you something. When I take my children somewhere, I don't care if it's tennis, practice, dance, the dentist, the doctor. I am so. And I don't know if it's just me, but I am dialed in. Like, what's happening at the front? What's happening back here? Why don't you guys have new carpet? This carpet's from 1998. What are we doing here? Like, I'm talking. I'm paying attention to the whole vibe. Now, my husband, on the other hand, is not. Like, if I was like, oh, my gosh, did you see the Bubba? And he'd be like, what? I'm like, oh, Dave. Like, he's not. He's not paying attention the way that I am. And I don't know. I'm wired this way.
Janna Nelson [00:27:44]:
Like, I don't want to say it's just like, a woman thing, because I don't want anybody to get upset, but our brains work very differently.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:52]:
Totally.
Janna Nelson [00:27:53]:
Some men are very in tune to it. I would say my youngest, he may notice something like that. My oldest would not.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:59]:
Well, oh, I love it. I love it.
Janna Nelson [00:28:03]:
I'm the same way, too. I actually. My pro. My. My. My medical doctor. My. You know, my doctor. I go to see. They just moved their practice to a brand new building because there's a lot of changes here. Like, Beth. You know, Beth Rosera Leahy. Everybody's buying everybody out, whatever. I go in. So it was the first time I had been in the building. I hadn't been there yet. I'm like, this is so beautiful. I'm like, oh, my gosh. It's so clean and.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:28]:
And.
Janna Nelson [00:28:28]:
And very, like, just an updated building. It's a brand new building.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:32]:
Yeah. Modern.
Janna Nelson [00:28:33]:
Young girl at the front desk. So cute, adorable. And I just put lotion on. So this is, like, random, but I just put lotion on. She goes, oh, my gosh. She's like, your lotion smells so good. I was like, oh, thanks. And I was like, oh, it's this, you know, I pull it out, and she's like, can I take a picture of that? Now, as we're talking, in my peripheral vision, I can see this older woman staring at us. And so she takes the picture. Whatever. Super sweet. I can't remember her name. I don't even know if I asked her. I'm so bad with names. But the older woman comes over, and she's like, is everything okay over here? And I'm like, like, yeah, everything's fine. And she's, like, looking at the young girl, like, so I'm. In my head, I'm like, she must be training this young girl how to check people in, because she's new. Like, I knew she was new. She hadn't been there before.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:19]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:29:20]:
I felt so bad. And I actually ended up saying something to my doctor about it. And the nurse, I was like, you know, I'm like, I usually don't, like, complain at all with the front desk. I think everybody's great. I go, but this is what I just experienced. And I go. And I feel like you guys need to know this, because this young girl is so sweet. She's a fresh, you know, young, adorable. For your front desk, where you've had. They have all these older women, which is fine, but, like, you have this, like, kind of bully.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:46]:
Well, she was. She had, like, true connection with you.
Janna Nelson [00:29:50]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:51]:
And someone else was like, wait, that's not what we do. It's really interesting, Jana.
Janna Nelson [00:29:56]:
Right? Isn't that interesting? And in my head, I'm like, this is what you want. When you walk into a place, even when you walk into a nail place or your hair salon.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:04]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:30:05]:
You want there to be some sort of.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:07]:
I want connection.
Janna Nelson [00:30:08]:
You don't want to feel. Right. Like, you don't want to walk in and be like, oh, hi. And they're like, hey, hi. You know, so. And I feel the same way. When you walk into any practice, we can bring it back to ortho again, but the front desk. I remember thinking to myself, the front desk is the first face that you see. And I think this might have been something you taught us or somebody taught us someone's truth first.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:33]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:30:33]:
First thing that you see is a person at the front desk. So if they don't have a smile and they're not engaging and they're not acknowledging you, you instantly are turned off.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:42]:
Oh, yeah. Same thing goes chairside when you bring your patient back and they lay in your chair, and then you just lay them back without saying a word. Jana. It's gotta be one of my biggest pet peeves. I'm like, you don't even say, okay, I'm gonna lay you back. Here's what we're gonna do. You're not engaging at all. You just lay them back, and you open, and they open their mouth, and you haven't even connected in any way. I can't. It makes my eye twitch. You know, it's funny to speak on what you were talking about, too. I was just recently at Target returning something, and the woman helping me was really great. And she. She was younger and another woman, but was behind her, and she was same age as this. They were probably in their early 20s. And the phone ring. Target's phone rang, and she had to answer it. The. The. The person that wasn't helping me. And she goes, the phone's ringing. She was brand new. She didn't even have a name tag. Like, she had a sticky tag. Okay. Like, it was like, you know? And she's like, yeah, brand new. And she goes in. The woman helping me goes, really rude. She goes, answer it. And she goes, answer it. She's saying all this in front of me. She goes, answer it. What do I say? And she, like, gave her the worst look, rolled her eyes. And she goes, thank you for calling Target. How may I help you? And I was like, oh, everything. It took everything in my body not to go, okay, so let me have a teaching moment. Of course. I wouldn't do that. I would. I would not do that because I don't work for Target.
Janna Nelson [00:32:20]:
But I was like, like, well, but as a customer, though, the experience.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:25]:
So she answers, and she takes the question. She was so sweet about it. And she had no idea how to put this phone on hold. She knew nothing. So she leans over. This customer can hear. She goes, how do I put this on hold? And the other girl rolls her eyes, grabs the phone, puts it on hold. She's like, give me a second. And I'm like, but you did not actually set this girl up for success in any capacity. And I just think back to what I do for a living, and I'm like, guys, it stuck with me. All of it stuck with me. It was just a really, really wild experience to be able to view. And again, mindset shifts. And the old school, new school situation. I get it. Perspective. It's all the things. But it's really interesting how we are so focused on some of this stuff.
Janna Nelson [00:33:17]:
Yeah, I agree with you. And I think it's because we're in that line that. That work. We're in that field of wanting people to be set up for success. Right? And I think, again, it goes back to your experience when you're in your 20s or even younger. You know, I. My youngest son is working now, and there's been a few things that have come up about the way the Manager approaches things. Things. And I just go, that's gonna make them not want to continue working here. Like be. Give them, you know, and I do think, I mean, obviously, the younger. The young, as we know, the younger crowd is a little bit different these days. Right.
Cassie Kellner [00:33:58]:
They.
Janna Nelson [00:34:00]:
They get pretty much everything they want and, you know, they don't work too hard for it.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:05]:
Whatever. Whatever.
Janna Nelson [00:34:05]:
I know it's a completely different generation and I. And I've literally raised children in completely different.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:11]:
Yeah, Sir.
Janna Nelson [00:34:13]:
Generations. Yeah. So, you know, I think that it goes back to your experience and the experiences that you had and again, I think going, you know, kind of trailing back to the 40s and.
Cassie Kellner [00:34:28]:
Yeah.
Janna Nelson [00:34:29]:
You know, work life balance. You know, you can't. You can't always do that. You know, when you have. When you're working for a practice that's not seeing that. That or even just in any company in general, there has to be. I wish they would. I wish there was more work life balance. The way that people think and the way that people look at your. Even your personal time, you know, like, do I think if somebody's taken a mental health day once or twice a month is a big deal? Absolutely. But I think that we've come to this place, especially in, you know, going through Covid. That changed everybody. Right. And the way that we just saw the world and reacted to things and everyone just was very different, even families. I mean, my family and I were on a little bit of a different level with it because I was. I was in the middle of, you know, sharing custody of my youngest child. And so again, it's. It's the work life balance and being able to kind of do that one and also have the experiences and having managers, bosses that understand that, you know, regardless of how old they are or how young they are, you know, I.
Cassie Kellner [00:35:53]:
Think that leaders really have to focus on. And I think this is what the. A global pandemic taught us too, is like leading with compassion. All of these scenarios that we talk about today in your medical office that you were at. At Target in an ortho practice, like, you have to lead with compassion. And. And whether people agree with that or not, that's on them. But you will notice that if you shift your mindset and lead with compassion, a lot of things fall into place. That doesn't mean that you don't set boundaries. That. That's not what I'm saying. There are boundaries. This is a workplace. You have a job to do. However, you can still lead with compassion and have boundaries at the same time. It is doable. I've done it personally. I've seen it. I've seen it be done. I've had leaders that do it for me.
Janna Nelson [00:36:51]:
I think sometimes people get nervous or they get scared.
Cassie Kellner [00:36:55]:
Sure.
Janna Nelson [00:36:55]:
When you talk about boundaries, like, I think it's hard. I mean, I know I still struggle with boundaries in my own personal life, but I think as. Especially as managers and upper. Upper management, GMs, whatever, they're not really sometimes built that way or taught to do that.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:16]:
So we go all the way back to mindset shift.
Janna Nelson [00:37:20]:
They're taught how to be orthodontist. I mean, unless they're taking a psychology class, they're not taught how to manage.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:27]:
Right.
Janna Nelson [00:37:27]:
10, 20, 30 women and mixing men there, which I always love. I love when those men like mix in the practice. I think it just makes it so much more fun. But it just adds a little, little testosterone.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:43]:
Totally. We need it.
Janna Nelson [00:37:45]:
Right. Like it's. It evens things out a little bit. I think it's a good thing. But I think, you know, they're not taught that just like we're not, not. We're not necessarily taught how to, how to, you know, I don't know, be adulting. Right. Who likes to adult. Like, adulting isn't something you're really. I mean, you watch other adults do it, but I'm talking like grocery shopping, paying the bills. Right. Like they need. I think there needs to be more when it comes to not even. Again, not just even ortho practices, but just practices in general taught how to. How to manage. And if they're not, then they have a good goes office manager. Right. Or whoever.
Cassie Kellner [00:38:26]:
Yeah. I would say this too, Jana. I know. Same. I want to say this to kind of wrap this up too, but, you know, I would encourage people to take a big piece of what you said in how you had a massive mindset shift. And it comes with time where you are. Weren't. Not as reactive. And you talked about like, like driving and all the things, you know, like how you, you didn't react in a way that maybe you would have reacted in, in your 20s or 30s or, you know, and it comes with maturity, which is why when I hit 40, something shifted for me as well. Don't, don't worry, everyone. I still have plenty of shortcomings. Like, they're there. They're real.
Janna Nelson [00:39:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:39:19]:
But, you know, I. Yep. I think if people are leading with compassion and really focusing on what's going on around them in their teams, and I will say it's not too late to shift your mindset. I. You know, if you find yourself incredibly short staffed or you have a very toxic team or, you know, you know that you have to make some massive changes on your team because people aren't working out. It's never too late. It's okay to shift. And listen, we're at the end of 2025. You get a whole.
Janna Nelson [00:39:59]:
I can't even believe that when you say it. I'm like, you know what's so funny is there's so many things that I thought. I mean, there's definitely things I accomplished this year that I wanted to, but there's so many things that I'm like, do I still have enough time to.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:12]:
Right, I know.
Janna Nelson [00:40:14]:
So I still have enough time to do those other things that I forgot that I was gonna do.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:18]:
I know. Listen, Jana Nelson, thank you so much for joining me, truly, from the bottom of my heart.
Janna Nelson [00:40:27]:
Thank you. Thank you.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:32]:
The best. You are the best. You know, you're the best. You know how much I adore you. And we'll catch up another time, and believe me, you'll be back. Thank you so much.
Janna Nelson [00:40:43]:
Oh, I. I want to come back. We'll have to. We'll have to come up with another. Another idea. But, yeah, I will. Yeah. No, I appreciate you and you know that. And I hope that everyone that watches this, because you know me, I'm gonna be. I'm always posting your stuff on Instagram. Wherever I can do it, I'll bring you up. I actually, I told you that we, you know, next year, hopefully we'll be able to do more. But, you know, I think what you bring to the table is. And this is why I listen to Mel Robbins. You're inspiring, and I said this to you when I first met you. No, you are. You're inspiring. And I feel like you and I. And I don't say this lightly. I. And I know I've said it a million times, but I appreciate everything that you have done for me in my life, and I'm excited to see with the next 2026 brings. I can't wait to see how. I can't wait to see you up on the stage and all that fun jazz.
Cassie Kellner [00:41:41]:
So thank you, Jana.
Janna Nelson [00:41:43]:
You're the best. Oh, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:41:47]:
Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team. First, if today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review. It helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
