Cassie Kellner [00:00:01]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I'm your host, Cassie Kellner, former chairside assistant turned team coach and founder of Everbloom. This podcast is all about the real stuff, Honest convos, leadership lessons, and the heart behind thriving orthodontic teams. If you're ready to grow, lead, and bloom, let's dive in.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:22]:
Welcome to The Bloom Effect. I am your host, Cassie Kellner, and I. You guys are in for a treat. Brenda Ashwell, thank you so much for joining me. Truly, truly, from the bottom of my heart.
Brenda Ashwell [00:00:39]:
Well, thanks for having me, Cassie. It has been such a joy watching you absolutely bloom, pun intended, there in this new adventure. And I've loved tuning in. Dixie convinced me that, yes, I absolutely need new shoes.
Cassie Kellner [00:00:56]:
And.
Brenda Ashwell [00:00:57]:
Right. I'm with Dr. McComb. If you want happy patients, you have to start with a happy team. So I am, like, all in on all your content as well, and absolutely concur with all of your respective panelists or my guests. Guests. Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:18]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Brenda, wait. I love this. I can't wait for Dixie to hear that you're in the new shoes. This is so good.
Brenda Ashwell [00:01:25]:
I think I'm currently in flip flops.
Cassie Kellner [00:01:28]:
Oh, I'm barefoot. I was actually barefoot when Dixie and I were doing this, and I was. She's like, I'm wearing heels right now. She was home in her home office, and I was like, oh, I'm pretty sure I'm either barefoot or wearing slippers at the time. Like, I was, you know, And I love it. So anyway, I love. Thank you for supporting me and supporting me in so many other ways. I can't even tell you we met. I think it's been nearly 10 years now. We. And this is really interesting, too. I don't know if you know this, Brenda. Maybe I don't even know if I've told you this, but I used Patient Rewards Hub as a team member, and then I. Right. Years and years ago when I was still working in a practice, and then I met you from, like, on the business side. And, you know, I adore you and Cody and what you do. And so. And so much of what we do and what we talk about and what we believe in is so, so aligned. And so we today are going to nerd out on all things team culture, and I cannot wait. And so I always start this with, who is Brenda? Are you ready for this?
Brenda Ashwell [00:02:38]:
Oh, yeah. Well, I had basically an existential crisis as I thought about my answer to this question. And I'm sure all of your guests have Right, Totally. It's crazy. So I really boiled it down and I've got it truncated into I am a fun, loving, work hard, play hard gal. That is honestly a total brand experience and technology nerd. I've spent 30 years in the ortho world and while I love the space, what I really love is I love turning big ideas into real growth. And I'm super excited about AI enabled tech and where that meets play inside the practice and how these little brand moments that we create, how they really drive growth with the business. So after years of building Patient Rewards Hub and Hubbux Teams, and now at their parent company, Culturello, I've really seen how this connected brand experience really shapes everything and that this sustainable growth absolutely comes from these culture driven experiences. And when I'm not nerding out on all those things, you're going to find me chasing some kind of outdoor adventure on a bike, on a snowboard, on a SUP board, in the mountains, at the beach. If I can be outside playing, if I'm not working, it's one of those two. So that's it. That's my existential crisis in a little nutshell. A little package. There you go.
Cassie Kellner [00:04:22]:
You know, it's interesting whenever I ask so people know that I'm going to ask that question before I ask, right? I have to. Can you imagine if I just threw that at you and just. Yeah, exactly. People are like, oh gosh, I, you know, but it's so much fun for me because one, I've learned so much about people that I have known for years, the things that they say in those one, you and I can relate on being an Ortho. It's 20 years for me, 30 for you. We also can relate on living in San Diego. You know, you don't live there anymore. I don't either. But you know, having that experience, we can relate on starting in a practice and then going, wait a minute, I think I'm going to shift here. And also we can relate on working with world renowned orthodontists and like that experience. You know, there's not many people in my experience in the industry that have gained an experience like that where they didn't even really know. Like I didn't know. I don't think you knew what you were walking into when you started with this orthodontist. And then you're like, whoa. And I feel that that was like a wild foundation for me. Like that was a really solid foundation to go. This is actually incredible. And then I just like dialed in and Paid attention.
Brenda Ashwell [00:05:41]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:05:42]:
And. And, you know, some people have this and some people don't. This entrepreneurial spirit of like, oh, I think I'm going to take this, and I'm going to go like this and this, and then I'm going to take this hurdle, and then, oh, okay, there's more. And I'm like, there's this, like, fire drive in me that's probably really debilitating. Like, my husband's like, yeah, right. He works in medicine. He feels good about that. And I'm like, I think I'm gonna launch. Blah, blah, blah, I think I'm gonna do. And he's like, okay, you know, I think that. So, like, I feel like we can relate on so many levels. You're 10 years ahead of me, and I'm just like, watching you and going, okay, all right, we got this. Like, I can do. Look at Brenda, like, truly Brenda, you.
Brenda Ashwell [00:06:36]:
Know, that's so sweet. Thank you. I have the added advantage, though, Cassie, is I have a. A sole partner and a business partner along the side, you know, alongside of me. So everything that I have, everything that we've built, built with Patient Rewards Hub and Hubbux Teams, and now Culturello. It really has been from our shared experiences. And. And to your point, I feel like one of the things that's, I think, unique about my experience in orthodontics is, you know, I started in college and I started with a wonderful practice in Vegas with Cree Hamilton, and he was. He brought in the OG Ortho Consultants, and he. So I foundationally learned the business at just a fundamentally best practice right out of the gates. Right. So right out of the gates, I was just gleaning this experience from these mostly women who were really showing what was possible and really took hold of that space. And I learned so much, and I did so many things to build referral networks for. For this practice and this practice group just wonderfully well. And he's just such a wonderful practitioner and human. And I was able to see how grassroots connections with people and how top of funnel, how we started that, how you do it from real relationship building, you know, these events. You did it because you wanted to give something back to your community that served you. And I mean, I did contests with patients using literal clip art and, you know, would go into practices or go into schools with, you know, a little. A little puppet and would show how to brush teeth. And everything, though, was analog. Every experience that we had that I had those early foundational years was analog. And then to your point, I got my exposure to, and that was kind of, with Hamilton, it was kind of all things front of house. And then I came with Ron Ronconi, and he really, like you said, kind of opened my experience to where the clinical side of the practice really changes the way that patient experience can be had, and it changes staffing. And he showed me that on a global level, he has practices that would come from all over the world. And so I got to speak with doctors who are in Germany and kind of learn what their experiences are. And what's crazy is all of these moments and all of these experiences kind of shaped where we were able to see problems, where we're able to see hurdles and really kind of at the same time, look to see how can we use. How can we have this brand engagement now in a digital way? And so I think all of those experiences, to your point, have really kind of led to where I am right now with this front row seat to see what practices are up against, what they're juggling.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:15]:
Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:10:15]:
And, you know, these really kind of have inspired a lot of what we bring in. Culturello.
Cassie Kellner [00:10:21]:
Yeah. So. Okay, okay, so let's talk about this a bit and, like, be prepared, people, because we're about to, like, nerd out on serious culture building and experience in general. Right. So you've described, like, this journey, right, that you've had from, like, day one to all of these different things that. And platforms and from referrals to reward to relationships. And I, like, I feel like we need to say that again. Referrals to rewards, to relationships, because, like, that's the funnel. Right. I mean, there's so much more that goes into it, but, like, those three things in a practice. So can you just walk me through the evolution on how it shaped the way that you think about patient and team experiences? Like, how did this evolve? Like, where did this come from? How did this evolve? Like, talk. Tell me about this journey.
Brenda Ashwell [00:11:21]:
Yeah, so I think, you know, all these things were being done, you know, in a very analog way. We were doing these contests. We were. We were going out and trying to get referrals, and, you know, we were using referral slips. And. And in 2025, although things are still tangible and yes, we still use paper, there is a better way to experience these things in a digital way. There's the ability to have attribution, to be able to see, oh, I can't see when somebody physically hands a referral slip, but maybe that person is a really great referral. We just do it. Can I cuss on this? Can I say shitty? Go for it. Okay.
Cassie Kellner [00:12:09]:
We just do a really.
Brenda Ashwell [00:12:10]:
We just do a really shitty job, maybe, like, converting them. Right. It's not the person's fault who brought them in, but with paper, we don't know. And so, yeah, being able to kind of look at all of these systems that we've done analog in such a really well way, and then just take. Take that and say, okay, what's the last. I always like to say, what's the last thing in a practice that has a system around it? And it's brand, it's marketing, everything. You have a clinical system always buttoned up from start to finish. You know exactly what wire you're putting in next. You know what, you know exactly what's happening on your schedule, Dr. Time schedule, and you've got that on lock. Right. But marketing and brand experience, which is the way we're making people feel when they're in our practice, or hopefully taking that experience outside of our practice, well, there wasn't really a system for it. And so if you don't have a system, you're not consistent. If you're not consistent, it's onesie twosies. Some people have this great thing, some people don't. And so I've really liked the evolution of seeing all of this in a way that is kind of buttoned up and then, okay, that's great for patients. Now what can we do this for employees? Is this journey the same for employees? Of course it is. You know, how can we. How can we. How can we make them feel more connected to our brand and tell our story and then certainly partners and people that refer in our community like that? So that's kind of that evolution.
Cassie Kellner [00:13:50]:
Yeah. And, you know, I think, too, I've said this in so many lectures, Brenda, people probably tired of hearing me say this. Let's get real. We have. We focused for years and years and years, like early 2000s, on, like, patient experience. That's all anybody was talking about. Like, it's about your patient experience. It's your patient experience, you know, and then all of a sudden, it was like, your Turnover is like, 99%, guys, like, what. What is going on here? And so finally. It's taken a really long time.
Brenda Ashwell [00:14:23]:
I couldn't agree. The pendulum is finally coming back.
Cassie Kellner [00:14:28]:
Finally. We're like, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What about this, like, theory, everyone, that if you hone in on your team and you make them feel loved and appreciated and a part of something, and you give them clarity and you cushion Them with pillows, and you make sure that they feel like they're in a safe work environment. Let's just start there. That then they will take care of your patient experience.
Brenda Ashwell [00:14:56]:
Yeah. And it's not the other way around. It can't be the other way around.
Cassie Kellner [00:15:03]:
No, no, no. And so that is why I love what you do so much. I actually remember the turn of patient words of this was like, forever ago, just so you know, of, like, giving, giving. Obviously, I'm a clinical nerd, so I'm swiping, I'm giving my patients points. And then I remember the shift, too, of being able to give points to my team members and for them to, like, get gift cards and get purses and get. And get the things that they want, too, in that simple evolution. But your company, your ideas, that was a massive shift in the industry because we were so focused on patient, and all of a sudden it was like, wait a minute, we can also swipe this and give love to our team because they deserve it.
Brenda Ashwell [00:15:54]:
Yeah, we saw that so much, Cassie. We saw that so much with our best customers were using the system in a way, they were kind of hacking the system, if you will. Right. They were saying, hey, we. We recognize that gamifying things and giving a goal and having a treat after you've reached that goal, playing, engaging, these work. So could this also work for my team? And then it's like, yeah, but why don't we just ground up this and that this is really where having a CEO that comes from big business that really understands not just the ortho world, but lots of other just really kind of understands technology at its core. And he went, no, we can't hack this. We've got to build this from the ground up for that user. Because when you're in the system, we want the system to be able to give things specific to an employee or specific to a partner. And so we really did kind of ground up, rebuild those for those member types. And then AI, that's changed the game. It's absolutely.
Cassie Kellner [00:17:22]:
Let's talk about this. Like, let's be real. Let me back up really quick. I'm an elder millennial. I'm going to be 41 soon. I. So, like, I AI, like, punched me in the face. I would say, personally, in the last 24 months, like, truly, truly. Where I really went, like, wait a minute. And. And because I am who I am, I go down these, like, rabbit holes of like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Right. And. And so I use AI, obviously from A different perspective, but it's such a powerful tool that like, talk to me about the AI piece that you guys are like and how you're seeing that shift and, and the technology of it.
Brenda Ashwell [00:18:08]:
Yeah, you know, I think, I think the biggest opportunity with AI right now is taking work off of our plates. So, so many. Right. Think about all the teams that you talk to. Ortho teams are buried. We're buried, we're buried in repetitive tasks, we're buried in schedules and follow up and reminders and tracking. And what that does is that pulls us away from the connective layer of I've got a patient in front of us, I've got a patient in front of me, so AI can help kind of augment those things running in the background. And for me personally, I think I use an AI tool anytime I'm on with a new client and I used to use same. I used to just jot everything down and I was concerned about everything down and I need the information because I need to be able to action off that information. But what AI has done and the analogy I'm making is how I think this will help practices is AI makes it so I don't have to sit and jot this down. It's taking that information so I can be here and I'm not having to. AI's doing that in the background. And I think that is kind of where out of the gates we're going to, AI is going to take that task layer and kind of even out the playing field. So then what's going to happen is brands have to lean into this experience, this piece. If you, if you don't have this piece, then you just flattened out the playing field. Right. So we've been using AI for years, learning from data, predicting behavior and you know, kind of using that data to help trigger the right action across the right, you know, at the right time. But if you want to use AI to help make your brand experience better, you have to use it in a space that helps stay consistent with that brand moment. That really helps you focus on that, that, that human touch because that human part is going to be, you know, more important than ever. It's.
Cassie Kellner [00:20:30]:
Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:20:31]:
And so I also say, I also see, you know, these, these practices. If you're not leaning into this brand experience, then everything gets equaled out. You're not talked about you. When they go to chat to say who's the coolest or who's the best orthodontist near me, they're looking for authentic experiences. And if you're not part of that equation because AI has flattened everything out and you don't have this experience, that's shareworthy. That's talkable, that people have a way of easily being able to refer, you know, you. Then you're going to be left to whatever AI decides.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:13]:
Yeah. Isn't that why I'm like, processing all of this as you're saying this, Brenda, on so many different levels. Like just the authenticity, part one. That's huge. I. And also, I feel like if you don't understand AI and actually do your due diligence and understand it, you will also appear inauthentic because it's just going to spit out random jargon. That's like not your voice, your brand, who you are.
Brenda Ashwell [00:21:47]:
I couldn't agree more. It's like everybody starts using M, you know, M Dash. It's like nobody. Nobody knew what an M dash was before chat came out.
Cassie Kellner [00:21:58]:
Right, Brenda? Okay, I need the listeners to hear this. This goes out to everyone. I don't care what you're doing or who you are. Yeah, but if you are using AI on your socials, your website, your. Anything that you're doing, remove the M Dash. Everyone you hear this, because that is like the sign that this is not authentically you. And it doesn't mean that you use. If you use AI, you're not being your authentic self. You're just getting like this magical wand that's like, whoa, I sound really good. You know, like, it's just a magical button that goes like, whoa. That looks so much better than what my three sentences looked like. You know, I just saw something on Instagram because I do Instagram. Not Tik. I wish I did TikTok, but let's get real. I have two young kids, and there's no way I couldn't be a mom and have TikTok at the same time. I know myself.
Brenda Ashwell [00:22:53]:
The rabbit hole of scrolling would be insane.
Cassie Kellner [00:22:57]:
It would be too bad. And. And it's not. And to shout out to all those that have it and that can regulate it. It's just not how my brain works. So I saw something that these girls were talking on a podcast and they were like, the EM dash gives us the ick. And I could not stop laughing because, like, it's like the sign of using AI, you know, so. And I've seen so many times because people are just starting to use it and they're learning and. But they're. They're putting, like, they're copying and pasting whatever they're going to post, and then they forget. At the very bottom it says, does this work for you? Would you like me to create? Oh, cringe. And they're leaving it and I'm like, oh gosh, guys, like, like, you know, AI is magic, but you also have to put in the work.
Brenda Ashwell [00:23:46]:
Yeah. Like you do. You do.
Cassie Kellner [00:23:49]:
It has to be you. It has to be. You have to basically. Oh, Lindsey Quinn is nerding out right now. Lindsey Quinn, let me tell you, has a whole AI component to her consulting. I mean, it's bananas. She speaks. And Brenda, I don't even know what she's talking about. Like, I'm like, I don't. You're actually speaking another language to me. But she's like 15 steps ahead. And that's the thing though. Like, you actually have to teach your AI.
Brenda Ashwell [00:24:21]:
Oh yeah. To, to be you.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:24]:
To sound like you. To, to. Right. I mean, people just get on chat GPT and they're like, oh, I just saw this, I heard this, read this. I don't know where I saw it, but it was like somebody was creating job descriptions for their practice for using AI, but none of it was aligned with their actual practice. They were like, I just need a job description. It's like, okay, well that's great, great. But you also have to feed AI what you actually need back. So. Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:24:55]:
Because it's only as good as the data it gets.
Cassie Kellner [00:24:58]:
Exactly. Like, you know, it's, it's that. I mean, there's so many things and I'm not even smart enough from the AI perspective to even be discussing this. I actually feel it like an imposter right now.
Brenda Ashwell [00:25:09]:
Because, you know, you're, you're using it to help all those things. Right. Like you're using it to help create easier tasks or you're using it to, to very much help with the editing part. But you're right, the authenticity, the experience is, is not something at this point that can be, that should be outsourced.
Cassie Kellner [00:25:34]:
But also, don't you feel, Brenda, that. And you've said this in so many ways that if people don't jump on this. Oh yeah, they, they look. They're going to get left behind.
Brenda Ashwell [00:25:44]:
No, it's a first mover advantage. Absolutely. Genuinely lean in on it. That you lean in on it to help with brand authenticity and use it to build gen. Genuine culture and experiences early. Right. Like it's. And it's crazy because people are going to go to chat. The last couple of new clients I've gotten, they said, I went to chat, I put in the things my requirements and your company came up, wow, right? It's happening, and it's happening to practices, whether they know it or they don't know it. So what's going to be left is that experience with. That people have with your brand. So if you're not consistent with it, and that really is, you know, how are you going to be consistent with that experience that you deliver every single time to every single patient, to every single employee? And that really is where, man, I gotta have a system. I've really got to have a system to be able to enable these. These nudges and these moments of delight across all of these journeys that as a brand, I'm managing.
Cassie Kellner [00:26:59]:
Yeah, it's interesting because people talk brand, brand, brand, Brand became like a hype word in, you know, I would say in the last 10 years, it was like everyone was focused on marketing. Everyone has a slogan. You know, they went hard on brand. And I think they thought that brand initially was like, my logo.
Brenda Ashwell [00:27:19]:
Oh, a hundred percent.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:21]:
Right. Like, the colors that I choose and you and your company and Cody and what you guys have done and the evolution that you. That how you've evolved into these multiple different things have proved that your brand, my friends, is not just your beautiful logo.
Brenda Ashwell [00:27:42]:
Like, yeah, it's interaction. It's how people feel about you every time they interact with you and how they feel with you. Not just in the four walls of the orthodontic practice.
Cassie Kellner [00:27:56]:
Yes.
Brenda Ashwell [00:27:57]:
It's got to. I always. I'm like, I always use this motion. It's got to extend. You got to pull that experience where they are and be where they are, meet them where they are and have that consistent delivery.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:12]:
100.
Brenda Ashwell [00:28:12]:
Yeah, it is.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:14]:
I read somewhere again, I'm going back to Instagram. People are going to think I'm obsessed, which. Which I am. Let's get real. And I find, like, really funny things on there.
Brenda Ashwell [00:28:22]:
Oh, yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:28:22]:
And because I have, like, the Everbloom Instagram and then I have my personal Instagram, I just get, like, all the things, you know, in life because there's two different algorithms and. But I read, like. And I love this. And I've shared it so many times. It's like your brand and your culture, how your. Your team members feel on a Sunday night. Like, how they feel about going in on Monday morning and feeling about, like, okay, like, you're allowed to have bad days. Let's get real. And you're allowed to be like, I don't want to work this week, but it shouldn't be fear and anxiety and tears. And stress and, you know.
Brenda Ashwell [00:29:00]:
Yeah. So true.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:01]:
Like, this is. You people are their brand, Their team is their brand. And. And it's people, in my opinion. And you can speak to this, Brenda, because you are the, like, marketing and brand guru. I am not. I am just an onlooker when it comes to marketing. I love the creativity side of it. Like, I'm a can. I'm a canva nerd. But, like, I'm. I don't claim to be good at the same stuff, but I love.
Brenda Ashwell [00:29:28]:
Look at the background that you have created in this. Yeah. You're pretty good at it, Cassie. Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:36]:
Thank you. Thank you.
Brenda Ashwell [00:29:38]:
Yes.
Cassie Kellner [00:29:38]:
I just. I love it so much. I think it's the artsy side. I don't think it's the actual marketing stuff. I just love the design. Right, sure. But I think what's so interesting is that people will have, like, these fun tiktoks and their website will be beautiful. And then you get into the practice and you can feel. Feel the energy like, of like, oh, my gosh. This is not aligned with, like, everything that I saw.
Brenda Ashwell [00:30:05]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:06]:
You know, I have.
Brenda Ashwell [00:30:08]:
I. I completely agree with that. With that. And it's. It is interesting to see one of the best compliments I think I've ever received. Well, I should say one of the best compliments I've received recently is we were at the AAO and we were at the AAO this year as Culturello. And we have traditionally been Patient Rewards Hub and Hubbux Teams. And if you've ever visited our booth at the AAO, it's not like any other booth.
Cassie Kellner [00:30:40]:
Let's get real. It's a party.
Brenda Ashwell [00:30:41]:
We want to have fun, and we want. We have bright colors and we have balloons and we sell fun. We have to be fun. Right?
Cassie Kellner [00:30:49]:
Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:30:50]:
And so this year we wore sequin. The gals wore. Oh, I remember jackets. And so there was, you know, a bunch of us riding up the escalator, and I have had somebody come to our booth and they said, I couldn't find you in the hall, but we saw a bunch of girls or gals going up the escalators in bright colored sequin jackets. And we went, follow them. That's where they're at. And I. I was so. I was like, yes, that's the brand we have created. Different, fun, unique. And I like, I said it was just such a compliment to the brand that we've created. But that shit doesn't happen by accident either, Cassie. No, you have to plan it right. It's like you have to know what you're building. Otherwise whatever you build is whatever it is. Right. It's like the saying, all roads take you somewhere.
Cassie Kellner [00:31:57]:
Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:31:58]:
You have to have a system because you have to build that experience. And I think a lot of practices or a lot of businesses in general, you know, they've got, oh, I need this on Instagram. And to your point, then you come in the practice and they haven't detailed that all out. So it is bifurcated. It is, you know, segmented to, oh, this is how I feel here, but not here. And that's just not authentic because you have to take the time to really, you know, really build it out. And that team, they, they are the ones that are executing on that and the patients feel it. But that the team executes that culture and that brand. For sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:37]:
Absolutely. Okay, let's, let's like switch gears to practice leadership.
Brenda Ashwell [00:32:44]:
Sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:32:44]:
Because this is like, what piece of advice would you give to practice leaders who want to align their culture? The technology piece. We've talked a lot about AI, the patient experience for, for long term growth. Like, sure. What, what would that be? What would that look like?
Brenda Ashwell [00:33:04]:
Well, I have to say we built it right. So if. Yes, so we've built that. And I think that really is that the, the impetus of Culturello and combining all of these journeys together in a platform. But if you really had to break it down, aside from using our product, the first is deliver consistent experiences. Look at that patient journey. It's predictable. Make it delightful and easy from first call to retainer pickup. You have to look at it. Like I said, you've got to design it so that this, this, this experience is consistent. So I'd say that that's one piece of advice. The second is wholeheartedly invest in your team and their experience. Recognize and celebrate wins, big or small. Give your team tools and time to focus on patience, not just tasks. Let AI do that. Give them time and tools. Right. Because like I said, you and I are both up against this all the time. I can't give my team one more theme and it's like, you're right, you can't. How are they going to deliver this wonderful experience if all they're doing is task all day long? So, you know, build your culture on purpose. And again, this doesn't happen. You've got to build it and then take these moments and help create stories around how people share their experience. Help them with the words that they use. You know, AI is gonna not. AI won't make people talk about you experience Will. Yeah, Right. And then I think the last is kind of something new, which is own your data and your relationships. We outsource a lot of things, but really build that direct relationship with your partners, with your plan patients, with your employees, centralized communication. Again, that's why we built the platform to really control that brand experience so we can control where your brand shows up for AI to collect it. So if you're not controlling it, somebody else is going to. So own your data, create these stories, be consistent with that patient experience, and invest in your team with time and tools, not just tasks.
Cassie Kellner [00:35:49]:
Yeah. You know, I think the investing in your team part is. Is. Is culturello. It is all of the things, you know, they are. They're investing in their practice. And. And, you know, you're right, Brenda. It's the number one thing in consulting. You know, it's been a million years for me now, and I've shifted my consulting model, and so I'm very remote now. I used to go in, and so we'd have to close down and do all the things because I was so clinically focused. And they're like, I love this. However, do people. People are scared of their teams because their teams are like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm seeing patients from here to here. I don't have any more time. I can't do this. I'm stressed about this. And one, I find that people are not rolling out new things appropriately. Exactly as you said, from beginning to end. There is no why. They're like, hey, I saw this really cool, bright, shiny thing at the. At the AAO, and I'm going to dump this on my team because I thought it was cool. And also, like, my friend from school, my friend from residency also uses it, and he says, it's great.
Brenda Ashwell [00:36:59]:
Yeah.
Cassie Kellner [00:37:00]:
And we've not rolled this out. That's also team experience, like. And so, you know, I mean, and.
Brenda Ashwell [00:37:07]:
Then what's in it for me? My name's not on the door. I'm here from nine to five. And yes, I really like my colleagues I work with. Right. We stay for the employees, we stay for our friends. So, in reality, I think, what's in it for me? Well, I feel valued, I feel connected, I feel appreciated, and I think it's really interesting. I did a webinar, I think maybe the beginning of last year, and the title of it was for our clients, it was called Make Work Play. And it was all about, you know, how play helps the elasticity or the neuroplasticity in our brain. And it helps us be more susceptible to new ideas and to, you know, make ourselves feel vulnerable and uncomfortable. And so in doing this, I was reminded as I was kind of prepping for this call, I was reminded of the fact that in a Gallup poll, 67% of managers feel like they give enough praise and recognition, but only 23% of employees agree. So we as managers think we're doing better than we really are. Right. Just because somebody shows up, they have to. They can't work remote. Right. Just because they show up and they're in their correct scrub doesn't mean that they're feeling this connection. Doesn't mean that they're feeling appreciated. And that feeling of appreciation is the number one reason why people leave is because they don't feel appreciated. Especially when you're stretched thin. I don't have the tools, I don't have the time, and you don't appreciate me and my name's not on the door. Come on. I know, right?
Cassie Kellner [00:38:55]:
It's over.
Brenda Ashwell [00:38:56]:
Yeah, but it's easy. It's easy to reverse it. And I think that's that. You know, I agree. It's super easy to go. Okay, hold up. Where are we at? Let's get a pulse on where we are. A real pulse. Okay? Now let's, as a group, figure out what things need to be changed so that I have some autonomy, so that the group has some autonomy in what this looks like. Help them with mastery. Right. Like you're so all about that. Let's help you be good at your job. Because if you're really good at your job, you like to show up. And then how can we celebrate and have these fun moments and recognize big wins and small, from employees to employees to management, down. And so I think all of those things. Yes, our system helps with all of those. Even if you don't use our system, you can, but you should. Let's just stop for a second. You can create this on your own, but it has to be, you know, it really does have to be something that. It's not just happenstance, you know, when you walk into Chick Fil A, the reason why they say, you know, what they say isn't my pleasure? Yeah. It's not. Because the 17 year old that's, you know, slinging fries in the back thought that up.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:17]:
Right.
Brenda Ashwell [00:40:17]:
It's because somebody said, this is the brand, this is the culture. This is what we, as a connective group of people that work together, this is what we stand for. And this is. This is what our culture and our brand Is. And I think from employee to patients to those partners that refer to you having that connective, connected experience with your brand and your culture, I think that's really where, where it's at.
Cassie Kellner [00:40:49]:
I agree. I've been preaching this for far too long and I'm not gonna stop. Like I'm on a soapbox and I'm like, listen, listen, Linda. Okay, listen, listen, Linda, listen to me. You know, I, I'm like, and, and I'm gonna go all the way to the very beginning, Brenda. I'm gonna go all the way to the beginning. Training and onboarding from day one of who we are, what we stand for, what is our brand, what is our culture? How do you like to be supported? We're asking them questions. They're allowed to ask us questions. We are creating mentorship and buddy programs. We are, Listen, you know, I love Asana and, and Asana is not mine, but we get you in Asana and give you a very clear way of understanding what you're responsible for. Like, it's all connected back to brand and culture.
Brenda Ashwell [00:41:50]:
It's the engine. It is the engine that drives attention, referrals, and long term success.
Cassie Kellner [00:41:57]:
It is the engine 100%. Because you, you hire for character.
Brenda Ashwell [00:42:03]:
You.
Cassie Kellner [00:42:03]:
You train for skill.
Brenda Ashwell [00:42:05]:
Sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:42:06]:
So you hire for character. You take this wonderful, beautiful character and then you get to immerse them in your brand. If you hire for character for this wonderful human who's like, I don't know what I'm doing here because I've never been in orthodontics before. And you don't train them and you don't give them your why and you don't give them systems, then all of it falls flat and it goes directly back to culture and brand. I'm so passionate about this, it's embarrassing, but people wonder why right now, in 2025 and for the past five years since the global pandemic, they've seen this massive turnover. It's like, well, I don't know, how about because you have 17,000 people in your hometown and everyone speaking. Because the dental assistant or dental community is very small and they're saying, hey, yeah, don't work for this person or.
Brenda Ashwell [00:42:58]:
And don't go there. Right. And don't refer there.
Cassie Kellner [00:43:02]:
No. And so it goes all the way back to brand and culture and experience. And listen, it's one big bubble and I hope that the stars are starting to finally align for people because I have seen a shift and I'm really happy to hear you say you've seen a Shift too. And you guys have paved the way for patient experience, experience and now team experience. And I have to say this too, I love the gamify experience because it also, it's like, it brings out people's inner child, which we don't, we don't do very well as adults.
Brenda Ashwell [00:43:44]:
And what, what things do you remember? You remember things that are real crappy and really fun, right? Yes. And fun is easy. Fun is like memorable. Right. What's better than starting the day with a fun icebreaker? Something silly or a little game or playing, you know, playing with a patient. They're going to remember that the team member that played with them, not the one that was so excited because they were two seconds to the dot when they had to see that patient. I'm not saying fall behind because that's patient experience as well.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:23]:
Yeah, of course.
Brenda Ashwell [00:44:24]:
How about hey Johnny. And ask him, you know, which would you rather. Or how about let's play with patients and yeah, the gamified aspect of it is just a, it's a method to get the outcome we want. It's just a method and it's a.
Cassie Kellner [00:44:41]:
I know, it's a fun one. Yeah, totally. Yes. And I'm just going to kind of leave it because we've talked about analog and digital and AI and so a lot of people are still like, put the cotton balls in and guess how many cotton balls at Christmas. And you know, it's like. And, and I still think that that is a really, really, like I have a 5 and a 6 year old. Sure, they would love that.
Brenda Ashwell [00:45:08]:
Absolutely.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:09]:
However, these kids like Gen Alpha right now is growing up with an iPad and with quick and with games and with, and so like this, it speaks to them.
Brenda Ashwell [00:45:23]:
Yeah, it does. And I do think, but I do think to your point, Cassie, having both, because when I'm in the practice, I can do that, I can play it.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:32]:
Yeah.
Brenda Ashwell [00:45:33]:
And look, the reason why we started this 30 years ago, the reason why we did contests is because our weight was long. We wanted, and we wanted a different experience so that they knew an orthodontist was different than a dentist.
Cassie Kellner [00:45:47]:
Yes.
Brenda Ashwell [00:45:47]:
Like we wanted to create something fun. Why? Because an orthodontist costs money and a dentist, you go through your insurance. So we have fun here. Mom. It's different. Right. So that, I mean that really is, like I said, the OG back to the foundation of all of this. So those things are still fun and they're important and in the moment they're great. What do you do outside in a digital way for your patients to stay connected with you and on what? Well, this is where they are. So yes, let's get ourselves in a way that we're engaging both digitally and physically with, with them in around our brand. For sure.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:28]:
Yeah, absolutely. Brenda, I can't thank you enough. Thank you.
Brenda Ashwell [00:46:32]:
This was so fun.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:34]:
Much fun. It's truly, Truly, I could nerd out with you on so much more. And even, even outside of culture and brand, just like our stories and our lives and connecting and your listeners are.
Brenda Ashwell [00:46:48]:
Like, zip it, guys. I got, I got stuff to do. I got tick tock to get to.
Cassie Kellner [00:46:55]:
Yeah, exactly. I can't thank you enough. Truly, Truly, you are the absolute best. I can't wait to see you in person, Truly. Thank you, Brenda.
Brenda Ashwell [00:47:04]:
And like I said, Cassie, it has been my pleasure to watch you bloom and it's just been fun to be a cheerleader on the side and you know, it's hard to do new things and you're doing it well. Kudos to you, girl.
Cassie Kellner [00:47:19]:
Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me on The Bloom Effect, where we keep it real, keep it growing, and always keep it team. First, if today's episode sparked something for you, an idea, a shift, or just a reminder that you're not alone, take a second and share it with your team or a fellow ortho leader. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss a convo. And if you're loving the show, leave a review, it helps more practices find us and join the movement. And if you're ready to bring this kind of energy into your practice, visit DiscoverEverbloom.com to learn more about working together. Until next time, keep leading with heart, keep building with intention, and keep blooming right where you're planted.
